Bail-out!

[Double T]

Some aircraft were said to be difficult to bail-out of. I remember a statement concerning the fact that the counterweights on the tailplane of the P-38 killed a number of pilots attempting to exit their a/c.
How about the car-door P-39 or Hawker Typhoon? Difficult to get out of?
Seems a sliding canopy was the way to go... yet the Germans never had a sliding-canopy on the Bf109.

Tim

[Trexx]

quote:Originally posted by Double T

Some aircraft were said to be difficult to bail-out of. I remember a statement concerning the fact that the counterweights on the tailplane of the P-38 killed a number of pilots attempting to exit their a/c.
How about the car-door P-39 or Hawker Typhoon? Difficult to get out of?
Seems a sliding canopy was the way to go... yet the Germans never had a sliding-canopy on the Bf109.

Tim




Anything such as a whirring propellor or large, sucking orifice containing whirring 'propellors'...situated behind the cockpit would be "not so fun" to egress...

The Pfiel Do-335 and the Heinkle 162 come to mind...Hmmm! Both German designs...

Whad'ya know!?

[Double T]

Trexx:
The Do-335 comes to mind for sure. This subject has one of the earliest "ejection-seats" fitted to an aircraft. I wonder though if any German pilot actually survived an ejection from a Do-335?

I believe the "Arrow" was fitted with explosive bolts to blow the ventral rudder, and rear-propellor off the airplane in the event one was "bellying" the aircraft in. I wonder if it would have been smarter the "blow the rear prop" and egress the old-fashioned way?

The Me262 also comes to mind. The canopy was hinged on the right-side, as opposed to being a "slider." I shudder to think of a pilot attempting to bail-out of a jet-engined fighter at high-speed... when your egress-path was directly over the hot-exhaust of a jet-engine.

I've read stories by pilots that were forced to eject during the Vietnam War... and they measured close to an inch shorter in height after ejection. Terrible back problems were also a direct result. One pilot who ejected stated he would ride his aircraft down before ever ejecting again.

Tim

[GregP]

That's why the Do-335 had an ejection seat!

The He-162 was another story ...

I have heard the P-38 was VERY difficult to bail out of if you were going fast. If the palne was controllable, simply pull up steeply, open the canopy, roll over, and jump! No sweat.

In a dive at high speed, however, you were toast.

The Corsair was also difficult to exit. I was watching in Phoenix, Arizona several years ago when they had the air races there and the Super Corsiar caught fire from an oil leak. Kevin Eldridge used the fire extinguisher and the fire restarted, he then slowed up, and went over the side only to hit the horizontal tail abd break both his leg and arm. He recovered, but the aircraft LOOKED like it should have been slow enough to not have taht happen.

Anyway, there are MANY planes that are difficult to exit in anemergency. Some are MUCH easier if they are in control enough to maneuver before exiting. Some are simple unless the airspeed is high (most fall into this category). Some are simply impossible (the Lockheed Jetstart comes to mind ... 2 jet engines directly behind the door! Of course, no one was ever expected to bail out of a Jetstar!).

I'd say the Grumman Hellcat was the easiest high performance fighter to bail out of at any speed in addition to having the highest kill ratio of any piston fighter aircraft.

[Lightning]

Hi Double T,

The Curtis XP-55 "Ascender" had a pusher engine. The propeller was designed to be jettisoned in case of bailout.

During a test flight, the aircraft went into an uncontrollable inverted flat spin. The pilot bailed out safely. Photos of the flattened wreck lying on its back show the propeller still in place. Go figure!

Regards,
Lightning

[ChrisMcD]

HI Groggy

To quote you
The Do-335 comes to mind for sure. This subject has one of the earliest "ejection-seats" fitted to an aircraft. I wonder though if any German pilot actually survived an ejection from a Do-335?


According to Eric Brown the first two pilots to try to use the Pfiel's ejector seat were found dead in the ejected seats minus their arms. When he checked the cockpit he found that the activating levers were very badly placed

[Trexx]

Boing! I think we spoke of the D0-335s ejection seat here before.

Also, I think the rear propellor was designed to be blown off by explosive bolts just as the ventral fin on the Pfiel...

[GregP]

Now THERE's choice for you ... die in a crash or die by losing your arms when you trigger the ejection seat. I'd say the smartest option was not to fly it!

I don't mind fighting for my country, but I object strongly to dying for it needlessly.

[simon]

I believe someone mentioned on here before that the car-door of the P-39 could come completely away in the event of an emergency, got to admit I wondered about that one for a while, I just can't imagine trying to open the door into a 300Mph+ wind!

[Kutscha]

quote:Originally posted by ChrisMcD

According to Eric Brown the first two pilots to try to use the Pfiel's ejector seat were found dead in the ejected seats minus their arms. When he checked the cockpit he found that the activating levers were very badly placedThat is one of those myths that get embelished with time, never mind having some 'fun' with Allied test pilots. The canopy release handles were attached to the fuselage, not the canopy.

On page 52 of Monogram-Monarch book on the Do335 there are 2 very good photos showing the handles and they don't look badly placed.

To use the ejection seat the pilot had to press 3 buttons. The 1st button blew off the rear prop. The 2cd button blew of the fin and rudder. The 3rd button armed the ejection seat. The 2 levers for the canopy release were then pulled. The seat could then be used for escaping from the a/c.

[Wuzak]

If the rear prop and the fin and runner had been blown off successfully, would there have been any need for the ejection seat?

[Lightning]

quote:To use the ejection seat the pilot had to press 3 buttons. The 1st button blew off the rear prop. The 2cd button blew of the fin and rudder. The 3rd button armed the ejection seat. The 2 levers for the canopy release were then pulled. The seat could then be used for escaping from the a/c.

The only things needed additionally were sufficient altitude and enough time to go through all these steps before hitting the ground. Both of these commodities would become all the more critical in uncontrolled, high-G flight where the pilot was reaching for all those buttons and levers while being thrown around the cockpit with arms that weigh somewhere on the order of 50 lbs each.

Then there was all that elecrical circuitry and wiring that had to remain intact in the face of numerous hits on the airplane and any resulting fire. Everything from said buttons and levers to the explosive bolts had to work correctly and in proper sequence in order to allow a successful bail-out. Not a situation that builds confidence in one's ability to survive.