me163 komet throttle controls?

[halibut]

I know that the throttle lever had five settings : Off, Ground Idle, Flight Idle, Cruise and Maximum Power. What I can't work out is whether these were 'stops' and the settings were fixed, or did the lever progress smoothly through these points so that anything from 0 to 100% throttle could be selected?
Thanx, Hal.

[Corsarius]

To my knowledge it was a sliding scale, with noted points for different positions.

However, operational use showed the throttle to be VERY temperamental, producing surges of fuel which always resulted in something spectacular and unfortunate happening to the rocket motor (kaboom).

Pilots were under strict instruction to utilise full power during a power climb, and all combat was undertaken during fast glides through the bomber stream. If the throttle problem could have been solved, you would have seen the kill score for the Me163 to be much higher, as the pilots could have chosen their combat much more effectively rather than be limited so badly to direct point-defence and single-pass attacks.

[GregP]

Rudi Opitz is still alive and kicking and flying as a glider instructor. Why don't you write him and ask.

You can reach him through Flight Journal Magazine.

If you DO, let us know what he says.

[halibut]

Good idea. I'll let you know if I get anything.

[Corsarius]

dang. I forget where I found it, but I was looking over the Me-163 (oddly enough) and I found a museum that had one in pretty good condition (it was parked under the wing of a bomber). There were plenty of photos, and detail of inside the cockpit. There was also a drawing of the cockpit with all instrumentation labelled. I noted that at the time and thought of this thread (but didn't post on it, dammit!) and I can confirm that the Me-163 has a 5-position lever for a throttle, as described above.

But it would be nice to hear what a REAL Me-163 pilot has to say about it!

[GregP]

You know, there is a movement today to make new airframes of classic WWII aircraft.

Witness the new Yaks (with Allison engines), the new Spitfires, and the new Me-262's with J85's in them.

Wouldn't it be neat if someone made a new Me-163 with a modern rocket? Or maybe a modern jet such as the J-85? There WAS a version with landing gear in the planning stage ... maybe THAT one.

Then we could see one fly, use the bleach for the laundrym and drink the booze as a toast to Dr. Alexander Lippisch.

[simon]

Already there, well, I have bleach in the cupboard, and I had a drink somewhere... dunno where... pfizzzzzz! (Opens another) Ah...Hah!

G'nite all!

[Corsarius]

While looking for pics for my sig, I came across a lot of Me-163 scale models being flown via remote control by amatuer rocket enthusiasts. They get around the method of launch by launching vertically.

Otherwise, sure, I'd do it! A new-build Me-163 or -263 would be uber-cool!

[halibut]

I found something in Top Secret Bird by Wolfgang Spate:
'Another indicator about the same size showed that the combustion temperature was also in the normal area..."two-three-four-five," I counted and smoothly moved he throttle forward with my left hand, over the two rests between the first, second and third levels.'

It sounds like the transitions between the different throttle settings could be felt, at least, even if they weren't actual 'stops'. Moving the throttle smoothly would seem to preclude that.
What do you reckon?

[tenmmike]

here is a good read on it you will note that it mentions throttle position stops............................................. ....................Operation
Running a Walter 109-509.A-1 Motor.

Starting
Within the cockpit, the pilot pushes the throttle forward, from the closed, to the starting position. This aligns an aperture in the throttle quadrant, which uncovers a starting button. The pilot presses this button to initiate ignition of the motor.


On Walter 109-509.A-1 motors, this activates an electrical starter motor which turns, via a gear train in the accessories unit, the shaft of the main fuel pump: (on the ground, a trolley accumulator is used to provide the electrical power necessary). Both fluid pumps share a common drive shaft, and the helical sections of each pump create a suction pressure which draws fluid from the fuselage and wing tanks.

T-Stoff is bled from its pump and fed into the steam generator. Here it is sprayed onto the catalyst-bearing stones, decomposing and generating large amounts of steam. The steam is channelled directly to the central turbine of the fuel pump, causing it to spin up the pump more rapidly. The waste steam from the turbine is exhausted directly overboard from the underside of the fuselage centre-line through a short pipe. Some steam is led down into the combustion chamber and exits directly from the motor venturi. The purpose of this is to blow out any fuels which may have pooled in the bottom of the combustion chamber, to prevent any uncontrolled, or premature detonation of the first main fuel flow, once idling is exceeded.


As the revolutions of the fuel pump increase, T-Stoff flow is automatically regulated to keep the pump turbine spinning at the correct speed - the electric starter motor is disengaged. C-Stoff is drawn from the fuel tanks and fed to the cooling jacket of the double-walled combustion chamber. Returned fuel is then pumped back into the fuel tanks.

Within the cockpit, the Pilot will be following the operation of the turbine speed indicator. When it reaches 6,000 rpm the throttle is moved fully forward through the power setting stops to full power, take-off position.

Take Off
From idling, when no liquids are delivered to the combustion chamber, on application of further throttle movement, C-Stoff fuel is pumped to the injectors which spray it into the combustion chamber.

As the pilot's throttle is moved, a rotating sleeve in the fuel flow control device opens ports connected to each of the power output stages. This bleeds C-Stoff fuel flow into pistons which are linked to transmit their force onto similar pistons in the T-Stoff fluid circuit. Movement of the second pistons regulates the pressure of the flow of the peroxide to the injectors in the combustion chamber. The design arrangement of the pistons is such that the correct proportions of liquids are automatically delivered. Increases in fuel flow cause a corresponding increase in the flow of peroxide until an equilibrium between the flow of the two liquids is once more reached.

The direct action of the pistons from one fluid flow into the other is a very efficient method of regulating flow. But with the reactivity of the peroxide fuel and the dire consequences of the two fuels mixing inappropriately, the machining tolerances of the motor parts were very high indeed.


At the combustion chamber head, are a series of twelve injectors. Each injector is a double jet type. On the inside the peroxide is passed through a screw thread swirler and atomised as it leaves the orifice. Around this the C-Stoff fuel enters a whirlpool chamber through a tangential orifice and then out through a small annular gap surrounding the peroxide vapour, so that it comes into intimate contact with the T-Stoff and the chemical reaction takes place.

"Throttle forward until the start button was visible! My index finger pushed through the hole in the throttle quadrant and the fuel pumps began whirling. After a few seconds the drive for the vapour generator cut in. Outside, the ground power unit, with its long power cable, disappeared from view. A small movement forward with the throttle and the engine sprung to life. I could hear the combustion chamber as the noise cut in through the earphones in my protective hood. As the fuel ignited, the aircraft shuddered slightly and the fuselage rocked forward from the initial burst of thrust from the engine...


At this point, the chamber pressure must have already been between five and eight atu. A look at the indicator on the front instrument panel, over my right knee, confirmed that I was right in my estimation. Another indicator about the same size showed that the combustion temperature was also in the normal area... 'Two-three-four-five' I counted and smoothly moved the throttle forward with my left hand, over the two rests between the first, second and third levels.

The rocket howled and pushed the bird ... over the three-inch-high wooden chocks blocking the wheels with a tremendous force."

[Pete57]

quote:Originally posted by GregP

You know, there is a movement today to make new airframes of classic WWII aircraft.

Witness the new Yaks (with Allison engines), the new Spitfires, and the new Me-262's with J85's in them.

Wouldn't it be neat if someone made a new Me-163 with a modern rocket? Or maybe a modern jet such as the J-85? There WAS a version with landing gear in the planning stage ... maybe THAT one.

Then we could see one fly, use the bleach for the laundrym and drink the booze as a toast to Dr. Alexander Lippisch.


They are!
Please go to http://www.xcor.com/me163.html