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GregP
7th November 2003, 13:50
Since the end of WWII, there has raged a continuous debate over which was the best overall fighter aircraft to emerge from the conflict. This debate shows no sign of abating to this day. From the school boys of the mid nineteen forties to the aviation scholars of the 1990?s, P-51 advocates argue their case with Spitfire men and Lightning defenders, and so goes the debate forever..........
Or, does it?
While these debates certainly do not lack for passion, they frequently lack accurate analysis of the aircraft in question. There is some solid evidence that strongly supports the argument that the Chance Vought F4U-4 Corsair was the finest all around fighter of the war. Certainly it qualifies as the best fighter/bomber.
The F4U-4 arrived in combat early in 1945. Therefore, it had only about six months to establish its combat record against the Japanese. However, the big fighter remained in service throughout the Korean War, where along with the F4U-5, it gained a sterling reputation for delivering ordnance with great accuracy. Indeed, the Corsair earned the respect of enemy pilots flying the MiG-15. Vought's Corsair was a fighter that could not be treated lightly. In a turning fight below 350 knots, the MiG pilot could find himself in big trouble very quickly.
Chance Vought's F4U-4 came about as a development of the F4U-4XA, which was first flown in early April 1944. It was fitted with an up-rated Pratt & Whitney R2800-18W or -42W engine. This powerplant developed 2,450 bhp with water injection. It was also fitted with a four blade hydromatic propeller which provided the necessary efficiency to utilize the greater power. The carburetor inlet was moved from the wing root leading edge to a duct located under the engine. The exhaust stacks had to be re-routed as a result. Armament remained the same as the F4U-1, with six .50 caliber Browning MGs. The limited production F4U-4B was armed with four M3 20mm cannon. Under-wing load capability was substantial. Up to three 1,000 lb. bombs along with eight 5 inch rockets could be carried. Reportedly, it was not unusual to rig the F4U-4 with as much as 6,000 lbs of ordnance. Apparently the robust structure of the Corsair could bear these loads without undue wear and tear on the airframe. Almost certainly, such overloaded Corsairs did not operate from carrier decks, but exclusively from shore bases.
Let?s compare the F4U-4 to its earlier sibling, the F4U-1 so that we can clearly see the improvements made.
Maximum speed:
F4U-1: 417 mph @ 19,900 ft.
F4U-4: 446 mph @ 26,200 ft.
The -4 displays a 29 mph speed advantage, but more importantly, does it at a considerably greater altitude. The F4U-4 is actually 10 mph faster than the P-51D at the Mustang?s best altitude.
Rate of climb:
F4U-1: 3,250 ft/min.
F4U-4: 4,170 ft/min.
While the -4 has a more powerful engine, it also weighs more than the F4U-1. This marked increase in climb rate can be attributed to the more efficient 4 blade propeller as well as the higher power of the up-rated powerplant. The increase moves the Corsair into stellar company with fighters such as the P-38L and the F7F Tigercat. The F4U-4 climbs at a rate 20% better than the P-51D.
There is little doubt that the Corsair was likely the greatest load carrying fighter of its era. There is little to compare to it except perhaps late-war models of the P-47, which still fall somewhat short in maximum load.
We now get to the more subjective aspects of the -4?s performance. Rating a fighter?s flight characteristics is never without pitfalls. What one pilot feels is too stiff, another might describe as firm or secure. As a result, opinions may vary. However, empirical data is certainly the most valuable in determining a fighter's overall performance. The tangible things such as cockpit layout and visibility are also important, as are the intangible things such as confidence in the airframe to get the pilot home. I will do my best to present the subjective data in an unbiased manner.
In terms of maneuverability, all models of the Corsair were first rate. The F4U-4 was better than the F4U 1 series. Why? More power and better performance in the vertical regime. Very few fighters, even pure fighters such as the Yak-3 could hang with an -4 maneuvering in the vertical. Its terrific climbing ability combined with very light and sensitive controls made for a hard fighter to beat anytime the fight went vertical.
Ease of flight. The Corsair was much less a handful than the P-51 when flown into an accelerated stall, although it was by no means as forgiving as the F6F Hellcat. Torque roll was no worse than most of its high power contemporaries.
The F4U also rolled well. When rolling in conjunction with powerplant torque, in other words, rolling left, it was among the very fastest rolling fighters of the war. In the inventory of American fighters, only the P-47N rolled faster, and only by 6 °/second.
In level flight acceleration the F4U-4 gained speed at about 2.4 mph/sec, the P-51D accelerated at about 2.2 mph/sec. The F4U-1 could not keep up with either, accelerating at only 1.5 mph/sec. The real drag racer of American WWII fighters was the P-38L. It gained speed at 2.8 mph/sec. All acceleration data was compiled at 10-15,000 ft at Mil. power settings.
Turning to dive acceleration, we find the F4U-4 and Mustang in a near dead heat. Both the P-47D and P 38L easily out distance the Corsair and P-51D in a dive. Still, these two accelerate better than the opposition from Japan and Germany. Moreover, both the Corsair and the Mustang have relatively high critical Mach numbers allowing them to attain very high speeds in prolonged dives before running into compressibility difficulty. With the exception of early model P-38?s, it was almost always a mistake to attempt to evade American fighters by trying to dive away. This goes for early war fighters as well, such as the P-40 and F4F Wildcat.
There is one story recorded by a Luftwaffe pilot who, while flying a Bf-109F over North Africa tangled with several FAA Martlets (the British name for the F4F). Finding himself alone with a Martlet on his tail, he elected to half roll into a steep dive to shake off the slow flying carrier fighter. Hurtling down in a screaming dive, the German looked over his shoulder and was stunned to see the Martlet (Wildcat) closing with guns blazing. Pulling back on the stick, under heavy G loading, the German eased into a zoom climb. The F4F was still with him firing bursts. As the speed bled down, the Bf-109 began to pull away in a steady rate climb. Had the Brit been a better shot, the German was certain he would have been shot down. He had underestimated the diving ability of the American fighter. Indeed, many of his comrades would do the same over Europe and not be as fortunate as he.
When we look at the turn rates of WWII fighters we stumble upon several factors that determine how well a fighter can turn. Aside from the technical aspects such as wing area and wing loading, we find that some fighters are far more maneuverable at low speeds than at higher velocities. This was very common with Japanese designs. At speeds above 250 mph, the A6M Zero and the Ki-43 Hayabusa (Oscar) could not roll worth a nickel. But at 150 mph, they were two of the most dangerous fighters ever to take wing. It did not take long for Allied pilots to learn to avoid low speed turning duels with the Japanese. Once this rule was established, the light weight dogfighters were hopelessly outclassed by the much faster opposition.
Over Europe, things were somewhat different. The Luftwaffe flew fast, heavily armed aircraft that were not especially suited to low speed turning fights. The Allies had in their inventory the Spitfire, which was very adept at turning fights. The Americans had the P-47, P-38 and P-51. All of which were very fast and at least a match for the German fighters in maneuverability. Especially the P-38 which could out-turn anything the Luftwaffe had and could give the Spitfire pilot pause to consider his own mortality. With the exception of these last two, there was nothing in Western Europe that could hang with the F4U-4. Even when including the Soviets, only the Yak-3 could hope to survive a one on one with the Corsair. To do so, the Yak would have to expertly flown. Furthermore, the Yak-3 was strictly a low to medium altitude fighter. Above 20,000 ft its power dropped off rapidly, as did its maneuverability. The Yak-3 in question had better be powered by the Klimov M107A engine and not the low output M105. Otherwise, the speed difference is too great to overcome.


So, perhaps now is a good time to summarize the performance of the F4U-4. Let's compare it to the aircraft generally believed to be the best all-around fighter of World War Two, the North American P-51D Mustang.
Speed: The -4 was about 10 mph faster than the P-51D at the altitude where the Mustang developed it's highest speed.
Advantage: F4U-4
Climb: The -4 Corsair was a remarkable climber despite its size and weight. It could out-climb the Mustang by nearly 800 fpm.
Advantage: F4U-4
Maneuverability: The F4U-4 was one of the very best. According to Jeffrey Ethell: "Of all World War II fighters, the Corsair was probably the finest in air-to-air combat for a balance of maneuverability and responsiveness. The -4, the last wartime version is considered by many pilots who have flown the entire line to be the best of them all?.." Indeed, the F4U-4 had few, if any equals at the business of ACM (air combat maneuvering).
Advantage: F4U-4
Armament: Equipped with either six .50 caliber machine guns or four 20mm cannons, the -4 had more than adequate firepower to destroy any aircraft. It was the premier load carrying single engine fighter of the war. It could get airborne with bomb loads exceeding that of some twin engine medium bombers.
Advantage: F4U-4
Survivability: There was no other single engine fighter flown during the war that could absorb greater battle damage than the Corsair and still get home. Even the USAAF admitted that the F4U was a more rugged airframe than the tank-like P-47 Thunderbolt. That is a remarkable admission. The big Pratt & Whitney radial engine would continue to run and make power despite have one or more cylinders shot off. The P-51D, on the other hand, could be brought down by a single rifle bullet anywhere in the cooling system.
Advantage: F4U-4
Useful range: The F4U-4 had roughly the same radius of action as the Republic P-47D-25-RE, which flew escort missions deep into Germany as far as Berlin (the P-47D-25-RE had 100 gallons of additional internal fuel capacity). Yet, the P-51D still maintained a big edge in endurance.
Advantage: P-51D
Ease of flight: Despite gaining the nickname of "Ensign Eliminator", the F4U series tendency to roll under torque was no more difficult to handle than any other high powered fighter of the era. Some who have flown both the Corsair and the Mustang state without hesitation that the P-51 exhibited a greater propensity to roll on its back than did the F4U. Moreover, the Corsair was a far more forgiving aircraft when entering a stall. Although it would drop its right wing abruptly, the aircraft gave plenty of advanced warning of an impending stall by entering a pronounced buffeting about 6-7 mph before the wing dropped. The P-51, however, gave no warning of an impending stall. When it did stall, it was with a total loss of pilot control, rolling inverted with a severe aileron snatch. Recovery usually used up 500 ft or more of altitude. It was not uncommon for Mustangs to spin out of tight turns during dogfights. The F4U could also be flown at speeds more than 30 mph slower than that at which the Mustang stalled. In other words, the P-51 could not hope to follow a Corsair in a low speed turning fight.
Advantage: F4U-4
Outward Visibility: The Corsair provided for very good visibility from the cockpit. However, few if any WWII fighters offered the pilot a better view than the P-51D. The earlier P-51B was inferior to the F4U. Nonetheless, it was the D model that made up the bulk of Mustang production.
Advantage: P-51D
Finally there is an area in which the P-51 cannot compete at all. The F4U was designed to operate from an aircraft carrier. What this provides for is a utility that is unmatched by the better land based fighters of WWII. The ability to operate at sea or from shore can never be over-valued.
Obvious advantage: F4U-4


In conclusion, it would be hard, no, impossible to dismiss the F4U-4 as the leading candidate for the "best fighter/bomber of WWII". Furthermore, there is strong evidence that it very well may be the best piston engine fighter (to see combat) period. Certainly, everyone can agree on this: The F4U-4 Corsair was at the pinnacle of WWII piston engine technology and performance. When people debate the relative merits of the great fighter aircraft of WWII, they would be remiss in not acknowledging the F4U-4 as one of the very best, and in the educated opinion of many, "the best" fighter aircraft to fly into combat in World War II

Corsarius
7th November 2003, 15:30
Hey, I'll rise to the bait.

Yep, I love the Corsair. It's a nice (but awfully ugly IMHO) plane. The Japanese called it 'whispering death' when doing ground attack as aparrently the embedded radiators reduced drag and made it very quiet.

I'm thinking now that it's odd that maybe none of us mentioned it in the 'best fighter' thread. Did we? I'll have to look.

Certainly I'll pay it as 'best carrier fighter of the war' (unless we're going to go with the bearcat/tigercat thing).

Thans very much for this GregP!

simon
7th November 2003, 17:07
Just to stick my oar in too, the Tigercat was not a Carrier fighter...

Yep, OK, I'll go along with most of that. I'd even read that the only reason the USAAF didn't chose the Corsair when they required long range fighters over Europe was because they couldn't bring themselves to buy a "Navy" fighter!

However, even though it is difficult to find fault with such a well worded and thorough argument, I have one or two observations.

As you know so much (I hope that doesn't come over sarcastic, as it's not intended to), how did the Corsair compare to it's stablemate the Hellcat?

Your comments about the endurance of radial engines over inlines I think gives the impression that aircraft with inline engines were inherently fragile. Yes the coolant systems were a real achilles heel of piston engines, however a single bullet in the right place will down any aircraft, although that place often varies from aircraft to aircraft, and one other thing I have noticed is that radials tend to take up far more space than inlines, so although they're more resilient to damage, overall a projectile passing through the airframe is proportionately more likely to hit it in the first place.

Also the phrase "...a single rifle bullet..." can give the impression that German infantrymen with their Kar98K carbines were swatting Mustangs and Spitfires out of the sky with contemptuous ease to the uninitiated reader. Many thousands of rounds would have to be expended usually by machineguns just to get that single rifle (Caliber) bullet through the coolant system, yes I'm sure the odd aircraft probably was downed by an "Air America" style lucky pot-shot, but these were the exception rather than the rule.

Finally (From me at any rate!), it wouldn't have been that difficult to navalise the Mustang if it had been required. The Hurricane and Gladiator were navalised with little or no loss of performance, and the Spitfire became the Seafire, and despite a deterioration in performance for the initial conversions, became an excellent carrier fighter, so to say the Mustang couldn't operate from carriers is possibly a little unfair as it could have been converted if needed (Now there's one for the "What ifs...?, the Sea-Mustang!).

Corsarius
7th November 2003, 19:31
I won't touch the 'sea-mustang' idea, but it DOES make you wonder. When the USAF bought the F-4 phantom, it was much to their chargrin as they had to eat 'humble pie' to buy a navy fighter. In the same manner, I would assume that the navy would be quite leery of taking on board an Air Force (or Army Air Force) fighter.

Re the radial vs inline match, I knew a few pilots that flew both types (including Hawker Demons back in the '30s!) and they were all in agreement that a radial aircraft is simply more robust. As you say, I'm not so sure, but they also generally agreed that a radial fighter is more manoeverable than an inline equivalent.

Most had flown the Capstain fighter (better known as the 'spitfire' lol) and also the boomerang. At least one of these old boys preferred the boomerang for manoeverability, but said that the capstain was better for everything else.

Interestingly enough, when the spits were first bought to Australia, they were shipped in crates marked "Capstain" and referred to as such, as capstain was a popular brand of cigarette. Tokyo Rose, however, was reported to have said that she heard "...there are capstains defending Darwin. Well it doesn't matter if they are filtered, tipped, or plain, they'll all burn just the same."

I guess our secret got out pretty quick!

simon
7th November 2003, 20:20
Sorry, just to go back to your earlier post Corsarius, wasn't "Whispering Death" the Japanese nick-name for the Beaufighter?

Which brings to mind one thing the Corsair couldn't do that contemporary twin engine fighters (Like the Beau) and medium bombers could. Carry torpedoes. ;)

Corsarius
7th November 2003, 21:24
I thought the Italians experimented with the Centauro G55 carrying torpedos? I don't think it became operationally viable, though.

simon
7th November 2003, 21:30
Could have done, I know they structurally strenghtened the G.50 for use and catapult launching from a never-completed aircraft carrier.

I think I may have to actually retract that last statement, not specifically that I've seen any pictures of torpedo carrying Corsairs, but given the Blackburn Firebrand Torpedo Fighter and I'm sure the Focke-Wulf Fw190A or Fs were also used as Torpedo Fighters, my guess is that there's no reason the Corsair couldn't have carried a torpedo if it was required, but with all those Avengers the US had it was probably just not needed! [:I]

GregP
9th November 2003, 13:40
Hey guys,

I found that bit about the Corsair on the web and posted it for "Corsarius" on the chance that he hadn't seen it yet.

My opinion is rooted in facts and figures. The best Naval figher ever to fly was the Grumman Hellcat, with a 19-to-1 air-to-air kill ratio.

For pure figher vs. fighter, there has never been a better propeller-driven Naval fighter, and any OTHER propeller-driven fighter ... if you take the kill ratio and sheer number of kills as the salient data.

During WWII, the F6F Hellcat shot down 5156 enemy planes in the air. The F4U Corsair shot down 2140, and the F4F Wildcat shot down 1006.

By comparison with ETO figheters, the P-51 shout down 4950, the P-47 shot down 3082, and the P-38 shot down 749.

These are, of course air-to-air kills. If you add ground kills, the P-51 starts to look pretty good, but the U.S.A doesn't COUNT ground kills ... even though the Russians and many other air forces DO.

Also, the F6F flew in the Pacific theater, so there weren't a LOT of enemy airfields around to use as "targets of opportunity" on the way home. Home was in the ocean, so any F6F ground kills were probably the primary target to srart with. Islands aren't generally lined up between a carrier and the strike target since the fighters would be seen and reported on the way in if the overflew and island on the way in.

Comments?

simon
9th November 2003, 22:34
Maybe they don't count Air to ground now, but I understand they did later in the war to encourage the pilots to engage in airfield Strafing, a couple of quick passes over a Luftwaffe airfield and suddenly you're an ace.

Actually the Japanese lack of radar meant that aircraft weren't typically picked up and reported so that those parked could be whisked off to safety, but I take your point about targets of opportunity being generally lacking in the Pacific.

Ricky
10th November 2003, 18:14
I feel I'm repeating myself here a bit...
Yes, the Hellcat does have the greatest kill:loss ratio of WW2 fighters, but a large portion of that comes down to the fact that the Japanese opposition were by the later stages of the war poorly trained pilots in poorly manufactured & maintained aircraft. When they worked, the Japanese fighters were amoung the best in the war, but a pilot could never tell when he took off on a combat mission if his plane would even reach the required altitude. (Chalk up one success to Strategic bombing against industrial targets).
The Japanese policy of not rotating their pilots out of combat meant that by the late stages of the war, the better pilots had all been shot down. Or drowned, when their carrier sank.
There was one occaision when a Japanese ace, in a Zero, fought with 5 Hellcats, and came away without a single bullet hole in his plane.

And why did the Corsair not achieve such a high kill:loss ratio?
Well, they started earlier. Plus, there were less of them, so less opportunity.

It all goes to show that statistics cannot really be trusted without context. For example, Luftwaffe pilots racked up huge scores against Russian opponants in the early stages of Barbarossa, simply because the Russian fighters (and bombers!) were obsolete.


Ok, rant over...
;)

Corsarius
10th November 2003, 21:39
The Japanese pilot's name was Saburo Sakai. At the time he did that feat it was in a clapped-out Zero that no-one expected to survive the combat, not even him. To make things even more impressive he had been wounded in a previous engagement and only had one eye, thus lacking depth perception.

Read his book "Samurai". It really gives a great feel for how the Japanese pilots felt, their exhilaration, their defeat, their respect for their foes, their despair at having poor aircraft and worse maintenence, and (his at least) personal distaste of the Kamikaze strategy.

The story that sticks in my mind was that of a 'betty' pilot who landed at their airfeild in Papua New Guinea. He also loved his 'Betty' and felt that it should be able to do aerobatics as well. Even then, they knew the war was turning and that a lot of them wouldn't make it back. To quote (with respect)

quote:
"You know" he said suddenly, " I think my greatest ambition has been to fly a fighter, not these trucks we go around in. It's funny," he mused, "We've been taking more and more punishment on our raids. Most of the men feel they'll never live to go home. I feel the same way"
"Yet", he turned to look at us, "I would be satisfied if there was one thing I could do."
We waited for him to continue. "I'd like to loop that truck I fly", he added. He grinned, "Can you picture that thing going around in a loop?"

Later on... (a bit of cut and paste here)

We saw the P-39 plunge with tremendous speed into the bomber formation, but could not move in time to disrupt the attack. One moment the sky was clear; the next the airacobra was spitting shells into the last bomber in the flight. Then it rolled and dove beyond our range. The bomber streamed flame; the airplane seemed familiar as I closed in to watch. It was the same Mitsubishi which had landed at Lae; it's pilot was the one with whom we had talked in the billet. The flames increased in fury as the bomber nosed down and skidded wildly. It lost altitude quickly, and seemed on the verge of going out of control. At 6000 feet it was only a matter of seconds; the flames were engulfing the wings and fuselage.
Suddenly, still blazing fiercely, the nose lifted and the bomber went into a climb. I gaped at the plane in astonishment as it's pilot started to draw a loop - an impossible manoevre for the Betty. The pilot - the same one who had told us he wanted to loop in a fighter - hauled her back and up. The bomber went up; hung on it's nose in a half loop, and the burst into a seething ball of flame which blotted it out entirely.
The flaming mass fell. Just before it struck the ground a violent explosion shook the air as the fuel tanks went off.

I can see it nearly as clearly as if I had been there myself. A pilot's last wishes, almost fulfilled. When you are near death, I suppose anything is possible. But what courage, and what a way to go, eh?

GregP
15th November 2003, 15:05
Nice story. I can feel for the pilot.

I am friends with a couple in Phoenix, Arizona, and the wife was a plane spotter for the Luftwaffe in the closoing stages of the war. She sat in a tower, called in any planes she saw, and described the type, number of them, heading, estimated spped, and estimated altitude.

For that she was called a "criminal." She was 16 years old when the war ended. Some of her storeies are heart-wrenching. By 1942, all of Germany knew they had made a BIG mistake electing Adolf Hitler, but the first thing he did was to disarm the population. So an uprising was almost impossible. If you wanted to EAT, you joined the party. If you betrayed the party, your family was killed or starved.

What would YOU do in that situation? ... and leaving was not an option.

robert
15th November 2003, 17:37
quote:Originally posted by GregP



By comparison with ETO figheters, the P-51 shout down 4950, the P-47 shot down 3082, and the P-38 shot down 749.



Just to clarify, the P-38 had 1,771 air kills in the ETO/MTO. The 749 kills figure is the number of ground kills - you're looking one column over!