P-38 Pilot's Words

[Trexx]

Hi guys,
I last Sunday I met a Gentleman named Elmer that was a P-38 pilot in the ETO. He was checking out the CH-53. That was my post, to make sure folks didn't fall off the ladder. He had denim jacket with a few P-38 patches on it that made a great ice breaker.
I told him about the interesting assessments regarding the P-38 currently being discussed in a friendly forum. I mentioned the kill ratio comparisons between Pacific and European operations. His eyes got big... I told him the thoughts about, "cock-pit heating... pilot work-load...". He said the L version was the last type to see combat and that it was "easiest to manage" but it was still a cramped, cold and conceded that there was plenty of work for the pilot in there.
He, at one point was in Italy doing work with the 15th Air Force. He related a mission near Anzio to me. There, he was an F-5 (highspeed-reconnaisance P-38) pilot. "There was NO heater in the cock-pit on the F-5. The heater was directed to the camera compartment to keep the cellulous from breaking in the cold." The cock-pit had a windscreen defroster vent only.
He was assigned one day to 'mark the target' for the bombers. (I figured, "before" photos). When he was going through 'start-up', the magneto settings weren't right, so he opted to take an alternate airplane. He got airborne behind schedule. He'd have to pass the bomber formation. He said that, "you never fly under the bombers" so he went 33,000 ft to go over the top of em'. While overtaking the B-24s, He spotted four P-38s diving down upon him aligned in a train... He said, "always fly into the attack, we were told". Pouring on the coals, he climbed into them. He said the first two, "went into terminal dives out-of-control as they went by him". This is where I stopped him, and asked, "WHY the F are you being attacked by PEE-THIRTY-EIGHTS?" "Because the Germans, at that time, were regularly using captured aircraft to attack us" he told me. He went on to explain the IFF radio transponder systems that were in place because of those "Damn, Dirty Rats". While eluding the remaining attackers, he used his radio to get help. At this point he had lost them. But after getting the appropriate frequency, he made contact with the now unseen pursuers. "You the Jack Rabbit we'd been chasin?" a shrill, Southern Lousianna voice asked. "That'd be me", Elmer let them know. Coming up now about 100 ft off his port wing the pilot from Lousianna asks, "What you got in that thing, Jack?"... Elmer quipped, "It's not what's in it, it's what's not in it!, I've got just about fifty miles an hour more than your mounts. " Woo-ee!" the Southerner replied.

Time was too limited unfortunately on the tarmac on Sunday.

We both wanted to go on and go over more details, so he invited me to a meeting of the "Fork Tailed Devils Club" that gets together monthly down the hill from me once a month for breakfast. I can't wait for that.
Elmer is 88 years old, of slight build but walks tall and has a crushing handshake. I'm looking forward knowing these "Fork Tailed Devils".
Stand-by...

[GregP]

Neat info! I suppose no heater qualifies as a terrible heater, doesn't it?

Anyway, keep us apprised on the tales of the P-38 guys ...

Their ideas may be 65 years old, but are very probably better than anything else around.

:)

[Trexx]

Only in my imagination... 33 thousand feet... and no heater! Good lord!

Oh yeah, Elmer explained, "there was a stigma for returning your airplane with a wet seat."

He learned it after THAT mission! Having the piss scared right the hell outta him!

HA! [^]

To avoid the stigma there was a procedure for 'relieving oneself' in a P-38 at high altitude. Just about everything freezes so you have to warm up the relief tube with windscreen feed first... There was lots of layers to get through as far as personal attire is concerned too. Getting jumped while 'going' was very undesireable. Timing of the tinkle was important fighter pilot work. Damn, human factor! Things you don't often think about in our terrestrial world! HA!

[GregP]

The timing of the tinkle,
Can cause a new wrinkle,
When to get caught in the middle,
Of your pressing piddle,
Can result in your plane,
Going down the drain …

All skill is for naught when an angel pisses in your flintlock …

[pmjwright]

GregP: good little rhyme, I enjoyed it immensely!!

[GregP]

Funny what beer can do ... it's happened before.

Go figure ... :)

[Trexx]

I have heard (read) of P-38s being used as 'beer coolers'.
Apparently a case of beer would fit in one of the compartments perfectly. They would take the hot beer up to altitude, get it cold and come back down to serve it. Great use of taxpayers money! Dastardly Flyboys!
..actually a profound testimate of the logistical, and quantitive superiority of the United States armed forces during World War Two.

Good thing the warm-beer loving Germans weren't tempted to squander resources like us gluttenous Yankees! HA!

[8D]

[GregP]

Probably set the P-38 altitude record while cooling 5 kg of beer.

We could have won the war a LOT sooner if only the brass had told the Army that they could have the Hoffbrau Hauss when they got to Berlin. Beer is a wonderful incentive.

[r16]

it appears the idea was widespread.

ý understand VF-17 once deployed to Bougainville with 8 bottles per plane, giving the pilots "great character with the ground crew."Bill Gunston has Spitfires flying to Normandy Beachead , probably lloking like this.

http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/artikel.php?id=1987

ý don't understand much of it , but it has the Bierbomb allright.

[r16]

it should read looking .

how do we edit messages ?

[Nick Sumner]

quote:Originally posted by Trexx

I have heard (read) of P-38s being used as 'beer coolers'.
Apparently a case of beer would fit in one of the compartments perfectly. They would take the hot beer up to altitude, get it cold and come back down to serve it.
[8D]


This surely must settle all arguments about which was the best fighter of the second world war?

[Double T]

An old WW2 crew-chief told me it was common practice to remove the ammo from the outside pair of .50 calibers in his P-47 Thunderbolt. (A case a beer would fit perfectly.)
Pilot takes-off in altered P-47 for a check-out hop, flies up to altitude and returns with cold beer ready to serve. (See War Stories thread.)

Tim

[Lightning Guy]

But the P-38 easily outclimbs the P-47; so you get your beer sooner! :)

[simon]

quote:Originally posted by Lightning Guy

But the P-38 easily outclimbs the P-47; so you get your beer sooner! :)


If you're that impatient for your drink then you've got a problem! ;)

[GregP]

We have a problem! :)

[curmudgeon]

quote:Originally posted by Nick Sumner

quote:Originally posted by Trexx

I have heard (read) of P-38s being used as 'beer coolers'.
Apparently a case of beer would fit in one of the compartments perfectly. They would take the hot beer up to altitude, get it cold and come back down to serve it.
[8D]


This surely must settle all arguments about which was the best fighter of the second world war?

Just a case?

[Ricky]

I've read about Typhoons being used after D-Day to shuttle Champaigne to England and beer (or often Guiness) back to France. The cargo was stored in the gun bays as seems to have been standard practice (;)) but apparently flying too high would cause the Champaigne corks to pop!

[Trexx]

Beer cooler, swiss cheese maker, hole punch, hair dryer, bananna slicer, tyranny chaser... THE LIGHTNING DOES IT ALL, DOUBLY QUICK TOO! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Fellers. [8D]

[robert]

In the hot Solomon Islands, US Marine squadron VMF-122 modified their F4U Corsairs to make ice cream. From Stephen Tontoni:

"[They would fly] the ingredients to 30,000 feet in an F4U-1D Corsair. Initial experiments with the container held in the center line bomb rack proved inefficient since the heat from the exhaust kept the ice cream from freezing. Eventually two five-gallon jerry cans were modified and carried at access panels near the aircraft wingtips. Within each jerry can, a shaft turned by a wind-driven propeller stirred the contents. To make ice cream, the two wing tip devices were filled with a concoction based on powdered milk and cocoa powder. The plane flying at 30,000 feet not only made ice cream; they also provided valuable flight training, instrument testing, and enticement for the Japanese to expend their AAA ammuni-tion. Of course the primary mission was to produce 10 gallons of soft chocolate ice cream with each flight."

[Trexx]

quote:Originally posted by robert

In the hot Solomon Islands, US Marine squadron VMF-122 modified their F4U Corsairs to make ice cream. From Stephen Tontoni:

"[They would fly] the ingredients to 30,000 feet in an F4U-1D Corsair. Initial experiments with the container held in the center line bomb rack proved inefficient since the heat from the exhaust kept the ice cream from freezing. Eventually two five-gallon jerry cans were modified and carried at access panels near the aircraft wingtips. Within each jerry can, a shaft turned by a wind-driven propeller stirred the contents. To make ice cream, the two wing tip devices were filled with a concoction based on powdered milk and cocoa powder. The plane flying at 30,000 feet not only made ice cream; they also provided valuable flight training, instrument testing, and enticement for the Japanese to expend their AAA ammuni-tion. Of course the primary mission was to produce 10 gallons of soft chocolate ice cream with each flight."

Holy flippen' crimany! I think I love American even more now. Capitalism, yes, but not so ingrained that we won't burn six hundred dollars worth of airplane fuel for a couple of cool treats! HA! [:p]