The XXL competition

[Romantic Technofreak]

As you people here like to compare, we might have at least a little discussion about flying boats of a total weight of around 70 tons.
The problems is, they all were built only in small numbers and most of them served only for a short time.

1. Germany´s contribution would be the Blohm + Voss BV 238.
See data: http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/bv238.htm
and really nice pictures: http://photo.starnet.ru/Thematic_Wallpapers/Aviacija_i_kosmonavtika/Bombardirovshchiki_i_razvedchiki/Blohm-voss/

2. The probable favourite is again an American, the Martin JRM Mars. A short overview you can get from Dave´s Warbirds: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/mars.htm. Everything important you can read here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmars.html#m5. And the two survivors are still-active firefighters, a very nice picture (while moored) you can see after scrolling a little down here: http://www.ipilot.com/aircraft/protect/feature.asp?ArticleID=280. This is very astonishing! Maybe some of you remember that my opinion is such old airplanes should not be operated any more, I think it is irresponsible to risk them (and the pilots), and I think this includes especially such an unique aircraft like the Mars. Using some modern Beriev jets for firefighting would also create some jobs in Russia.

3/4/5: There is a French trio of which all prototypes were confiscated by the Germans and transferred to Lake Constance, where they were destroyed in an Allied air raid.

3. The Latecoere 631 would also deserve a place in the "Prettiest Airplane" competition, as probably biggest competitor. Simple data and a picture from Aviafrance: http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=5566&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=795.
The poetic text here does not pay translation, but the included pictures really give an impression about the airplane: http://www.latecoere.com/arppnac/arppnac/carrefour/avions/late631McTextes.html.
It was undertaken to continue the career of the Late 631 after the war, but unfortunately, the aircraft was entangled in a lot of accidents (for its small number), losing a lot of lives. Before, the flying boat was considered more safe than a conventional airliner for to cross seas, and it had to be the beautiful Late 631 to prove just the contrary. For this, I don´t know if it can get the crown of the "best".

4. The SNCASE SE-200 could have been a serious competitor of the Late 631. Normally, only its backview is known, like here: http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=1150&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=1144. But also this airplane was really a beauty, although I ionly can offer a PDF-file to prove it. Please have some patience and scroll to a little more than the center: http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/jlecarme.pdf.
After creating a second prototype, the project was not continued after the war.

5. The Potez-CAMS 161 prototype suffered the fate of its two predecessors. I have to include it here for completion, although its size is too little to compete seriuously: http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=5757&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=1058

6. As British competitor, here is the Short Shetland. A real lot of fine pictures you can see here: http://www.seawings.co.uk/shetgal.htm.
It´s strory you can see as footnote in the Sunderland´s:http://www.vectorsite.net/avsund.html. In my eyes, the Shetland was ugly, and its further development was not accepted, so I don´t know if it seriously can compete here.

And what do you say? Please don´t be unfair and don´t include the "Spruce Goose" (XXXL size!) or smaller four-engined seaplanes (only XL) here. And does anybody know where from the French got powerful Wright Cyclone engines in the middle of the war?

[PMN1]

quote:Originally posted by Romantic Technofreak

6. As British competitor, here is the Short Shetland. A real lot of fine pictures you can see here: http://www.seawings.co.uk/shetgal.htm.
It´s strory you can see as footnote in the Sunderland´s:http://www.vectorsite.net/avsund.html. In my eyes, the Shetland was ugly, and its further development was not accepted, so I don´t know if it seriously can compete here.



No more ugly than most if not all of the others!!!

[GregP]

The Blohm Und Voss BV 222 was pretty big, but was half the weight of the BV 238. In fact, it was close to the Boeing 314 Clipper in mass.

The Hughes H-4 massed 136,121 kg but only flew once. It hardly counts in the anals of flying boats except as a footnote. You can see it in a museum in McMinville, Oregon, U.S.A., restored to the original colors and finish (along with some wonderful other aircraft, including a Bf 109 and a Curtiss-Wright Falcon). Amazing.

In my mind, the best 4-engine flying boat of WWII was the Kawasaki H8K Emily of various types (H8K2, H8K3, H8K4). These were about 25,000 to 27,000 kg, but were among the fastest and best flying boats ever made prior to 1945. If they restarted production with turborpops, it would STILL be a contender.

The H8Ks were about the same mass as the Latecoere late 611 / 612. I've only found ONE picture of the late 611 / 612, but it looks like a smaller 631. The 631 is easily the best looking flying boat ever made, if you don't count the Martin Seamaster, assuming you like jets better.

The Martin P5M was nice, but wasn't in the same mass class as the big boys. It was about 38,500 kg at max gross weight.

The Potez CAMS 161 was a nice looking craft, but only one was built. Hard to make a case for it.

The Saunders Roe Lerwick was too small to be included.

The Short Seaford (later Solent) was 34,000 kg and deserves mention, but the Shetland is much closer to your mass class, and they built two of them.

One flying boat has two names and companies. The Sud Est SE 200 is the same aircraft as the Loire et Olivier LeO.49, and is right in there, mass-wise at 66,000 kg. Nice boat and two were built. They also had decent speed.

The Tupolev ANT-212 wasn't heavy enough to include here, and neither is the ANT-44.

Of all these, I think the Latecoere 631 is the prettiest, but the Mars is certainly the longest lived flying boat. Two are still in service. I have heard rumors they are considering converting them to turboprop power, but have no idea if there is any basis for this rumor. I think not, if due only to the cost involved and the age of the airframes. It is interesting to consider, however. Would you increse the power available and perhaps pull the engine mounts off the wing, or use engines of comparable power, but MUCH lighter and more efficient? Glad I don't have to make THAT decision and then justify it afterwards.

Old flying boats are studies in corrosion ... assuming they are metal. Otherwise, they are studies in wood rot. This assumes they aren't capable of being beached after flight like the Japanese Shinns can. If washed down with fresh water and kept clean, they CAN last a long while.