Some Hard-to-Find Data on Aircraft

[GregP]

Well, I tried this a few months back and it netted some impressive data, so here goes again.

I'm looking for:

Bloch MB.160: Wing Area
Fairchild XNQ-1: Wing Area
Goeppingen Go-9: Wing Area and Height. I have great pictures!
Grokhovsky G-38: All data I can get.
Latecoere 611 and / or 612: Wing Area and Photo (I have a supposed pic, but it has 6 engines and looks suspiciouslt like a 631 on a beach dolly)
Messerschmitt Bf 161 and 162: Wing Area
Messerschmitt Me 109R: Height

Anybody ever hear of a Messerschmitt-Caudron MeC 164? I have a suspicious-looking photo that may well be a drawing of a fantasy plane. If real, I have no data on it other than possible existence and a pic.

Payen Pa.100: Wing Area
Payen Pa.112Cq: Wing Area
RKI RMI-3 or Z/G: I have a photo ... but no data at all except it is Hungarian and flew in 1943. It is a twin-engine, low wing, conventional gear aircraft with a glazed nose and single fin. Props are 2-bladed and appear to be fixed pitch.

SNCASE 1010: Wing Area and Height. Aircraft appears to have made numerous flights until the prototype displayed a tendency towards flat spins in a wind tunnel. SNACASE decided to examine the in-fkight behavior and, sure enough, got it into a flat spin from which it could not be recovered. The flight crew died and the project was abandonded.

Yokosuka H5Y: Wing Area

Thanks in advance! I am now up to 1269 aircraft in my database, but am missing some data (see above). I have 730 piston aircraft, 15 Rocket Planes, 77 Turboprops or Mixed Power planes, 426 jets, and 21 X-Planes to date. Most with data and photos.

Most, but not all, are post-1935 and military.

Missing some build numbers, and several sources seem to never agree on how many of what planes were made.

Anyway, thanks again.If I see any inquiries and I have the information, I'll post it.

Last, if anyone has a record of WWII air-to-air victories that show the winner and loser aircraft type, I'd LOVE to get a copy of the information. We all know that claimed kills are usually inflated by about a factor of 3 or 4, but almost no sources seem to exist for victories that show the pilot and type aircraft of the victor and the type aircraft of the victim.

That list would be worth finding!

I have a pretty good list of "aces" and their kills tallies, but not all air-to-air victories were won by aces. Many were won by a pilot who shot down a plane or two, but never made "ace" status.

Also seems funny to me that US Aces are pilots with 5 or more enemy kills, but Luftwaffe aces are usually shown with victory tallies of 25 or more kills. Interesting.

Can't hardly FIND a kill list of Japanese aces due to Japanese attitudes toward individual scores.

So ... any links to sites where ALL kills are listed, not just aces, would be appreciated, too!

Thanks! :)

[tenmmike]

greg i havent read your whole post yet and i need to go but here is a quick answere, the bf 161 used the wings of the 110 so if you got that then you have the 161 the 162 although i dont have the area number can say that "the wing structure was virtualy identical to that of the bf110A but overall span and gross area were marginaly increased"............ill come back to this post later ,maybe sunday oh the me 109r was in fact a me 209v1 the 109 designation was a prpaganda ministry deal

[GregP]

Hi Mike!

Yeah, I know the Bf 161 and 162 were variants of the Bf 110, but the span on both is different from any Bf 110 models. So ... I know the wing area is "close," but I don't know the exact number.

I suppose I could get a really good approximation with the Bf 110 wing area, but this is a recreational database, so I want the real number if possible.

A Bf 110 C spans 16.20 m with a wing area of 38.5 sq. m.

The Bf 161 and 162 both have a span of 17.1 m and no wing area.

I can extrapolate from the wing area and span of the Bf 110C, but really don't want to unless it winds up being all I have to go on.

Thanks for your reply and I'll keep extrapolation in mind. It would be tough to be esact unless I know both the root chord and the tip chord, but I could get very close in any case.

[Romantic Technofreak]

Dear Greg,

my standard book about all aircraft of Nazi time does not contain the data you ask. I think those records were lost. So I have no hope asking this in a German forum.

The Messerschmitt Me 164 was thought as competitor to the Siebel Si 204 light transport aircraft. When Messerschmitt´s capacities were strained during the war, the project was handed over to Caudron. The French showed not much motivation to continue the work, and because the Siebel already went to service, the MeC 164 was given up.

The Latecoere 611 is shown in this picture:

http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/fr/latecoer/611.htm

I think there is no sign that it might have more than four engines.

[tenmmike]

greg go here for a good list of jap aceshttp://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/ww2jap.htm

[GregP]

Hi RT and Tennmike,

RT, thanks for the Latecoere 611 picture! The one I have is obviously an out-of-focus shot of a 631 on a beaching dolly. I erased it.

I had not seen the pic you posted! Thanks again. It is now in my database.

I know from your earlier post that the Goepengin Go.9 data was not available, but was pretty sure some of the other data might be available. If not, well ... I tried and thank you for looking.

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the Japanese Aces list.

I wish there were some list somewhere that showed the victor, his or her aircraft and country, the date, the victim's aircraft type, and general location ... but I have almost given up on finding this.

A lot of effort was expended to correlate the Korean war victories. US fliers claimed 798 MiG-15s and the Soviets later admitted 345, while we whittled down the "real" kills to something like 375. The source I saw said that there was no attempt to correlate the "real" kills to a particular pilot, so the Korean war fliers get their claimed and allowed kills. It was also intimated that the Russian's 345 admitted kills did not include any NKAF losses or Chinese losses ... only Russian losses.

So, it is possible there were many more than 345 or 375 since we do not have access to North Korean or Chinese admitted losses.

And this was AFTER WWII, so I am pretty sure we'll always have a hard time with WWII claims and confirmed kills!

Thanks anyway.