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Romantic Technofreak
5th April 2004, 06:02
The Scourges of the Seas – A Ficticious Story by Romantic Technofreak in Four Parts

Part II: The Messerschmitt Me 264/364

The Messerschmitt Me 264 was designed for a unique purpose: to cross an entire ocean for to drop a bomb load AND come back on its own wings. For this, Messerschmitt constructed a special wing to take the main amount of the tremendous fuel storage necessary for that. The result was a range of 14.000 km, enough to make it to New York and back. The fuselage design is also very elegant, giving the machine a good speed performance of 565 kph, and, hope you enjoy the pictures,

http://www.msc-hansgrade-berlin.de/bauberichtmesserschmitt264BauerJ.htm

making it a candidate for the „Prettiest Airplane“ contest. And it is not a joke that the machine was originally planned as fast transport for to carry quickly perishable citrus and tropical fruit to Germany (remeber our cheerful „Citrus Conspiracy“ controversy in the „Worst Bomber“ thread). For this, the Messerschmitt workers called the Me 264 „Banana airplane“.

But the „bananas“ to be carried over the Ocean were ment to be an 1.800 kg bomb load. Not too much for a target like New York. Other variants were meant to be sea reconoissaters and ship hunters. For this purpose, the Me 264 could have had its season – if it had went to service at an appropriate point of time. Göring ordered an „America Bomber“ already in 1938, this is reported sometimes, but the Me 264 made its maiden flight not before December 1942. Giving some more time until entering service, the Me 264 would have to encounter the Allied high-performance fighters of 1943/44, and, being not much faster than a normal bomber, without having fighter cover itself would become a relatively easy prey for them.

So, the Me 264 needed to be in service at least at the beginning of 1942. But it is highly questionable if it ever had been possible for Germany to complete the development of such an airplane. When the program was given up in middle 1944, because Germany stopped all bomber development, the difficulties in development of the Me 264 prototypes were not surmounted, see link:

http://www.luft46.com/prototyp/me264.html

In class, the Me 264 is a mate of the Boeing B-29. We already had a discussion about the development of airplanes of that class, and the B-29, development being the most expensive American project in WWII, had to go through a “Kansas war“ before bringing the plane into service was possible. Germany did not have the American resources, not in material and not in personal, so there is a big “?“ after the question of the Me 264 ever being possible to see action.

And its purpose? Harassment attacks on New York, more would not have been possible, were only good as propaganda success to be a slight retalliation for attacks on Germany, but no way crucial to the war. Ship spotting and hunting would have been the better idea – as long as the losses would not grow too high.

So, with the war proceeding, further development of the Me 264 would have been required. The six- engined variation, the Me 364, would have been faster and could have carried a bigger load. And the first German jets might have been not mounted in fighters, but, to give additional thrust, under the outer wings of the Me 364, if Germany were in a serious fight for control of the Atlantic at that point of time (1943). Having an engine configuration like the Convair B-36, the Me 364 might have run 730 kph, thus being faster than any Allied fighter of that time, and having the ability to carry the most modern German guided bombs to every point between Reykyavik and Miami.

Of course, this is only a dream. But if you neglect resource and development difficulties, it is not too hard to imagine.

GregP
5th April 2004, 09:48
The Me 264 was a worthy and important project. I believe Germany COULD have made it work fairly easily, but would have had to forgo other options to free up the resources.

Whether it would have been a worthy contender to the B-29 remains a question, but it would certainly have given the Nazis a strategic bomber.

Some of that incredible fuel load could have been used for bombs and it could havge bombed England.

This is, after, a "what if" type thread, so I suspect atht if the Me 264 had been deployed, then the B-29 would have moved into the European theater of operations along with the early P-80 American jets.

No telling what might have transpired, but it would have seen interesting developments.

simon
5th April 2004, 19:06
RTF, do you think that the Nazi High Command would have seriously considered using a combination of the Me264 and/or Me261 and chemical or biological agents to attack US targets within range, I include in this obviously both legimate targets such as industry and terror bombing either in reprisal for Allied (By which I of course mean British) terror attacks on German cities, or as a means to draw the US to the negotiating table to sue for peace and attempt to stabilise Germany's frontiers?

I had also read that the Me264 was designed to carry a smallish bombload and return, or a larger bombload with the intention being to ditch partway back, the crew being rescued by waiting U-Boat. Personally I doubt the crews would have been too enthusiastic by this, and I would expect many would have perished, however I suppose if the target was important enough to warrant these expensive operations it may have been worth it...

Ricky
5th April 2004, 23:38
This does raise an interesting question - had German (or even Japanese) aircraft reached mainland America, what (if any) air defense measures were in place?

GregP
6th April 2004, 01:08
We were defended by hordes of Brewster Buffalos waiting to destroy any attackers that might appear. We would detect them with Douglas O-47s and other obsolete aircraft including blimbs, and then send in the big ... er ... small guns of the Buffalos to wreak havoc among the unway enemy.

Seriously, the U.S.A. had patrol aircraft out there, but no credible defense since we were sure that attackers could get here, but not with any decent bomb load and certainly not with gasoline to get back to wherever thay came from.

Ricky
6th April 2004, 01:34
Yeah, that's kinda what I assumed - the joys of having a border that is 3,000 miles from your nearest enemy!

I do wonder what kind of an impact it would have had on the war effort if the USA was forced to defend itself again German (or Japanese) strategic bombing. Obviously, Radar would allow for pretty early detection, meaning less man-power was needed (just a relative few interceptor squadrons on standby), but the length of coastline to be guarded would surely counter this advantage.
[?]

A very interesting 'what if'

Romantic Technofreak
6th April 2004, 06:36
The Nazi High Command surely had taken any chance for to carry out attacks on the north American continent, if they had one. But biological or chemical agents? Biological ones were not developed at that time, I think. And Hitler was not the best friend of chemical warfare, after getting blinded himself in WWI. So I suppose conventional bomb attacks were the most probable event to happen.

As much as I know, the USA had a considerable aerial home defence by 1943, at least some squadrons of Thunderbolts. And if not, they surely would have established one very quickly after the first successful strike on north American territory.

Surely, a lasting war of this kind would have turned into an intercontinental air war, with atomic bomb or not, and also seeing the Convair B-36 in action by 1946.