Relative Unknowns

[Notta Brit]

Ever heard of these planes? This is a show what you know page.

Bloch MB.131
Bristol Buckingham
Curtiss SO3C Seamew
Fieseler Fi-103
Fieseler Fi-156
Fisher P-75 Eagle
Heinkel He-113
Messerschmitt Me-328(Corsairius should know.;))

[GregP]

I have heard of all of them, and I'd bet a lot of people in this forum have, too.

The He 113 is fictitious. The aircraft described as the He 113 was really the He 100.

The Fi 103 was the V1 Buzz Bomb.

The Fisher Eagle was a joke. The USA tried to make a good fighter aircraft using a mixed bag of parts from existing designs and failed miserably, even though a massive re-design effort almost resulted in a good aircraft. What a stupid idea!

Anyway, yes, I have heard of them and they are all on the edge of obscure aircraft, except for the Fi 103. Probably rightfully so.

We made about 2580 Curtiss Seamews for the UK, and I'm sure the Brits who flew them wondered if we were allies or enemies. Maybe it wasn't THAT bad, but it was close.

[simon]

Try the following link.

http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664

There are quite a few planes on this and another Plane Quiz on this forum that I struggled with, or was completely bewildered by at any rate.

As for others, the McDonnel Bat (I can't remember the designation but I think XP-67 sounds about right), always looked interesting to me, and carried an extremely potent battery of guns.

[Corsarius]

quote:Originally posted by Notta Brit
Ever heard of these planes? This is a show what you know page.

OK, here goes. This is from memory so please allow some slack for errors.

Bloch MB.131: I originally would have said a fighter, but the series number is too low. Probably one of those hideous mid-30s french bombers.

Bristol Buckingham: British medium bomber in the vein of the B-25 and the Woomera.

Curtiss SO3C Seamew: shipboard floatplane. I think it was like a kingfisher. I don't recall much else. Used on battleships?

Fieseler Fi-103: This is the famous 'buzz' bomb. A New Zealand chappie has proved that the technology of pulse engines combined with modern GPS systems can produce something similar to one of these for as little as NZD$2000 per unit. And that's armed with a small warhead. AND it was built entirely legally in his back yard (NZ import laws have now been substatially reworked)

Fieseler Fi-156: The mighty Storch. Still being built in Czech republic with a rotary engine, and being built right here in Australia as the Slepcev Storch (a 2/3 size aircraft).

Fisher P-75 Eagle: Something awful this way comes. A fighter made from bits of things that other fighters didn't want.

Heinkel He-113: Achtung! Red Herring!

Messerschmitt Me-328(Corsairius should know.;)): You are an evil, evil man. FINE. This was an awful contraption designed as a parasite fighter powered by argus pulse engines (see the Fi-103). IMHO they should have known better. The vibrations from the pulse engines rattled everything, from the airframe to the pilot's teeth. It was a silly idea. A messerschmitt fighter designed by the Monty Python school of aircraft. And no. My speciality is in the Messerschmitt rocket-powered aircraft. I only touched on this one while looking for oddball fighters (which I guess is a secondary speciality of mine and therefore quite valid. My apologies Notta Brit). [^]

[Notta Brit]

The flying flapjack. XP-67.
The storch actually assisted in saving Benito Mussolini's behind when trapped in a hotel in 1943.

[Ricky]

I think the Seamew is more than deserving of a place in the 'ugliest aircraft' topic

The XP-67 on the other hand...

[simon]

The Storch also was the last aircraft to fly out of Berlin before the surrender.

OK the McDonnel Bat wasn't the XP-67, over to you GregP, what was it? Twin engine, a strange looking sort of flatish aircraft, and a projected armament of no less than 6 37mm cannon!

[B-24WillowRun]

Question I have read a little about the buckingham, but have not found a lot. I am always looking for good material on bombers and if it is truely on the lines of the b-25 even better. Though the B-24 is stil my prefered reading [:p]

[Notta Brit]

Here are some more:

North American P-64
North American P-82
Piaggio P.16
R.W.D.17
Ryan YO-51
Arado Ar-79
Arado Ar-96
Avia BH-21

[andyo2000]

Just a question here:

Was the SO3C Seamew just a British variant of the SOC Seagull? Because if it was, it was probably very useful, or at least it was in properly-equipped large ships.

[PMN1]

quote:Originally posted by B-24WillowRun

Question I have read a little about the buckingham, but have not found a lot. I am always looking for good material on bombers and if it is truely on the lines of the b-25 even better. Though the B-24 is stil my prefered reading [:p]


The evaluation crews from 2 Group (who were expected to use it) were scathing in their reports and considered it inferior to the Mitchell probably because of lack of consulation between the designers and those with operational experience and there were some very good reports coming from the B26 Invader and the mosquito was now capable of carrying a 4,000lb Cookie. The B26 couldn't carry the 4,000lb Cookies that the Buckingham was designed to carry but given its role in 2 Group its doubtful if that particular bomb would have been carried. Where it would have been useful was in the Far East (given its construction) but the end of the war was the end of the Buckingham in the bomber role.

[robert]

quote:Originally posted by andyo2000

Just a question here:

Was the SO3C Seamew just a British variant of the SOC Seagull? Because if it was, it was probably very useful, or at least it was in properly-equipped large ships.


No, the Curtiss SO3C was an entirely new design, and possibly the least successful operational US aircraft of WW2. It was called the Seamew in British service, but like the SOC, was at first called the Seagull in USN service, although the name Seamew was eventually adopted. It was a mid-wing monoplane, rather than a biplane, and started to replace the SOC in scout squadrons in late 1942. It had serious stability and control problems, and lesser useful range than the SOC. The aircraft was so bad that there are reports of SO3Cs being dumped over the side of ships by their crews in an effort to be re-equipped with the SOC! By May 1944, all SO3Cs had been withdrawn, and they were replaced by SOCs - the aircraft they were supposed to replace!

http://img65.photobucket.com/albums/v198/baclightning/2141.jpg

[robert]

McDonnell XP-67, unofficially called the Bat:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p67.html

http://img65.photobucket.com/albums/v198/baclightning/D4E-3240.jpg

[meister]

quote:Originally posted by simon

The Storch also was the last aircraft to fly out of Berlin before the surrender.

OK the McDonnel Bat wasn't the XP-67, over to you GregP, what was it? Twin engine, a strange looking sort of flatish aircraft, and a projected armament of no less than 6 37mm cannon!


Simon, almost everyone is under the impression that the Storch was the last aircraft to fly out of Berlin. The Storch was the last aircraft to fly into Berlin, there it was damaged. Hanna Reitsch flew out of Berlin in an Arado 96, it being the last Aircraft to fly out of Berlin before the surrender.

[simon]

Never realised that, another one of those myths that most people assume is true...

Robert, thank's for the picture, I thought XP-67 was the right designation for the Bat.

[Crusader]

What about the SC-1 Seahawk?
http://www.multied.com/aviation/photos/SCSeahawk.gif

My favorite floatplane, and another forgotten plane.

[Notta Brit]

Anybody going to mention the other planes I posted??

[Romantic Technofreak]

Bloch MB-131 1936
Bombardier moyen France
Quintuplace de bombardement et de reconnaissance. Premier vol le 12 août 1936. 144 exemplaires construits pour l'Armée de l'Air.
Monoplan aile basse. Construction entièrement métallique.

http://www.aviafrance.com/images/4232.jpg

Envergure : 20.27 m Longueur : 17.83 m
Hauteur : 4.10 m Surface portante : 52.00 m²
Equipage : 5
Masse à vide : 6050 kg Masse totale : 8590 kg
Motorisation : 2 Gnome et Rhone 14N10 de 870 ch
Vitesse maximale : 385 km/h à 4000 m
Montée à : 4000 m en11 mn 0 s
Plafond : 7250 m
Autonomie : 890 km
Armement : 1 mitrailleuse de 7.5 mm mobile dans le nez, 1 en tourelle dorsale et 1 ventrale,
800 kg de bombes


Bristol Buckingham

Designed as a fast, light twin-engined bomber. Delivery was delayed because the engines were unavailable. Handling was poor, and performance unimpressive. The operational need for them had disappeared when they were delivered. The Buckingham was mainly used as fast transport.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/buckingham-1.jpg

General characteristics Buckingham B Mk.I
Primary function Light bomber
Power plant Two Bristol Centaurus VII engines
Thrust 2x 2,521 HP 2x 1,880 kW
Wingspan 71.8 ft 21.89 m
Length 46.8 ft 14.27 m
Height 17.5 ft 5.33 m
Wingarea 708 sq ft 65.77 sq m
Weight empty 24,040 lb 10,905 kg
max. 38,050 lb 17,259 kg
Speed 330 mph 531 km/h
Ceiling 25,000 ft 7,620 m
Range 3,180 mi 5,118 km
Armament 10x 7.7mm machine gun; 1,814 kg bombs
Crew Four
Date deployed 1944
Number built 123


North American P-64

The six AAF P-64's (S/N 41-19082 to 41-18087) were originally North American NA-50A fighters built for the Siamese Government after a contract was signed on 30 December, 1939. The NA-50A was a modification of the earlier NA-50 (7 ordered by Peru). The NA-50 series was essentially a single-place fighter version of the two-place North American NA-16 trainer.
The NA-50A's were awaiting shipment in December 1941 when they were confiscated by the AAF because of the fall of Siam to the Japanese. The Army Air Corps redesignated the aircraft P-64 and used them as trainer and liaison aircraft.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p64-2.jpg

TYPE
P-64 Number built/Converted
6 Remarks
Impounded Siamese NA-50A; renamed P-64
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 37 ft. 3 in.
Length: 27 ft. 0 in.
Height: 9 ft. 0 in.
Weight: 6,990 lbs. max.
Armament: Two .30-cal. machine guns and two 20mm cannon
Engine: Pratt & Whitney R-1820-77 of 875 hp.
Crew: One
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 270 mph.
Cruising speed: 235 mph.
Range: 900 mile


North American F-82 "Twin Mustang" (=P-82)

The F-82 was the last propeller-driven fighter acquired in quantity by the USAF. It appears to be two Mustang fuselages on one wing, but in reality it was a totally new design. Its purpose was to provide a fighter carrying a pilot and co-pilot/navigator to reduce fatigue on long-range bomber ecsort missions. Delivery from production did not begin until early 1946, too late for WW II. After WW II, radar-equipped F-82s were used quite extensively by the Air Defense Command as replacements for the P-61 night fighter.
During the Korean Conflict, Japan-based F-82s were among the first USAF aircraft to operate over Korea. The first three North Korean airplanes destroyed by U.S. forces were shot down by all-weather F-82G interceptors on June 27, 1950.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/xf82-4.jpg

SPECIFICATIONS (F-82B)
Span: 51 ft. 3 in.
Length: 38 ft. 1 in.
Height: 13 ft. 8 in.
Weight: 24,800 lbs. max.
Armament: Six .50-cal. machine guns, 25 five-inch rockets, and 4,000 lbs. of bombs
Engines: Two Packard V-1650s of 1,380 hp. ea.
Crew: Two
Cost: $228,000
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 482 mph
Cruising speed: 280 mph
Range: 2,200 miles
Service Ceiling: 39,900 ft


R.W.D. 17

http://www.powiat.mielec.pl/poser/samoloty/rwd/rwd17.jpg

Name RWD - 17
Histroical period Years 1918 - 1939
Type of plane School
Country Poland
Manafuctry DWL
Year start work
Year of first flight 1937
Length plane 7,70
Height 2,45
Wingspan 10,00
Wingarea 18,70
Amount of engine 1 Name "Major 4"
Type of engine Crowd
Manafactory PZInc.
Power 130 KM
Max speed 195 km/h
Avg speed 165 km/h
Min speed 80 km/h
Crew 2
Range 680 km
Depreciation 28,00 l/h
Amount of fuel 110 l
Climb 4,50 m/s
Ceilng 5 000 m


Ryan YO-51 Dragonfly

Debutting in 1940, Ryan's Dragonfly was an observation/liason aircraft that (thanks to the full-span flaps on its parasol wing) could perform in the STOL (Short TakeOff and Landing) role. Except for its very cylinderical fuselage, the Dragonfly somewhat resembled the German Storch. The US Army gave it the designation O-51, but with only three examples being built, it never proceeded beyond the YO-51 designation.

http://aerofiles.com/ryan-o51.jpg

Type: observation aircraft
Crew: 2: Pilot, observer
Armament: N/A

Specifications:
Length: N/A
Height: N/A
Wingspan: 52' 0"
Wing area: N/A
Empty Weight: 4206 lb
Max Weight: N/A

Propulsion:
No. of Engines: 1
Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney R-985-21 radial
Horsepower: 440 hp


Arado Ar 79

Touring and training aircraft. Any famous German pilot of the 30´s flew it.

http://www.eichhorn.ws/assets/images/arado_ar79.jpg

——— TECHNISCHE DATEN ———
Typ: Ar 79
Art: Schul- und Reiseflugzeug
Triebwerk: ein luftgekühlter Vierzylinder-Reihenmotor Hirth HM 504-A2 mit 78 kW Leistungen: Höchstgeschwindigkeit 230 km/h;
Dienstgipfelhöhe 5 500 m;
Reichweite l 025 km
Masse: Leermasse 460 kg;
höchstzulässige Abflugmasse 760 kg
Abmessungen: Flügelspannweite 10 m;
Länge 7,62 m;
Höhe 2,10 m;
Flügelfläche 14 m2
Bewaffnung: keine
Besatzung: 2


Arado Ar 96

Type: Advanced Trainer & Multi-role tactical
Origin: Arado Flugzeugwerke.Production almost entirely assigned to Ago Flugzeugwerke and to Avia and Letov in Czecholovakia.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ar96-1.jpg

First Flight:
Ar 96A: 1938
Ar 96B: January 1940
Final Delivery: Czech built C.2B: 1948
Number Produced: 11,546
Engine:
Ar 96A: Model: Argus As 10C
Type: 8-Cylinder air-cooled inverted vee
Number: One Horsepower: 240 hp

Ar 96B: Model: Argus As 410A-1
Type: 12-Cylinder air-cooled inverted vee
Number: One Horsepower: 465 hp
Dimensions:
Wing span: 36 ft. 1 in. (11.00m)
Length:
Ar 96A: 27 ft. 1 in. (8.26m)
Ar 96B: 29 ft. 11¼ in. (9.13m)
Height: 8 ft. 6¼ in. (2.60m)
Wing Surface Area: 184.1 sq. ft. (17.1m²)
Weights:
Empty:
Ar 96A: 2,617 lb. (1187 kg)
Ar 96B: 2,854 lb. (1295 kg)
Loaded:
Ar 96A: 3,476 lb. (1577 kg)
Ar 96B: 3,747 lb. (1695 kg)

Performance:
Maximum Speed: 205 mph (330 kph)
Initial Climb: N/A
Service Ceiling: N/A
Range:
Ar 96A: 560 miles (900 km)
Ar 96B: 615 miles (990 km)
Armament:
Ar 96A: None
Ar 96B: One 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns above engine on right or gunnery camera.
Payload: Provisions for light bombs.
Comments: Letov in Czechoslovakia kept the C.2B version in production until 1948. The Ar 396 was designed as replacement but did not see production for Luftwaffe, France built large numbers post war as the S.11 followed by the all metal S.12


Avia BH-21

BH-21, Avia (1924)
The Avia {BH-21} biplane fighter was designed in Czechoslovakia.
45 were in service, of which only one deliverd by Avia and the
rest license-built.

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/drwg/s/avb21.gif

Gesamtlänge :
6.870 m
22.539 ft

Spannweite :
8.900 m
29.199 ft

Flügelfläche :
22.000 qm
236.808 sqft

Max. Startgewicht :
1085.0 kg
2392.4 lbs

Leergewicht :
764.0 kg
1684.6 lbs

Leistungsdaten

Höchstgeschwindigkeit :
246 km/h
133 kts

Reisegeschwindigkeit :
218 km/h
118 kts

Gipfelhöhe :
7700 m
25262 ft

Flächenbelastung :
49.00 kg/qm
10.05 lbs/ft2

Reichweite :
550 km
297 nm

Antrieb

Bauart :
KVau


Typ :
Skoda HS 8 Fb


Leistung (max.) :
220 ps
217 hp


Sources and translations on demand.
Regards, RTF

[Ricky]

Impressive...

That P-64 looks a wee bit like the Boomerang side-on!