Hellcat and Corsair over Europe

[PMN1]

Hellcats and Corsairs saw action with the FAA over Norway but has anyone heard of the possibility of the USAAF operating Hellcats and Corsairs over Europe in place of Lightnings and Thunderbolts?

[BuzzLightyear]

The USN operated F6Fs during the invasion of sourthern France in August 1944. Scored a few kills (He-111s). Lots of ground attack sorties flown, too.

[B-24WillowRun]

I am looking for USAAC use of F6Fs, but that is slow. I do have referances for the USN's use in support of Operation Anvil-Tourch (Southern France invasion) and also in Norway with the RN when they were flying against the Tirpitz. In France the Hellcats ranged some 100 miles inland, but the German fighters acording to what I have read ran away.

The USAAC took a slow time to look at Navy birds for its use. By 1944 they had a lot of P-38s that can do anything you need, P-47s and P-51s that could take the fight to the enemy. I will keep looking, and be watching this topic with interest. [:p]

[R Leonard]

For USN F6Fs, the only action over Europe transpired during the invasion of southern France in August 1944. USS Tulagi with VOF-1 (Lieut. Comdr. WF Bringle, USN) and USS Kasaan Bay embarking VF-74 (Lieut. Comdr. HB Bass, USN), both squadrons, operating F6F-5s, provided coverage for the landings. VF-74 also operated a 7-plane F6F-3N night fighter detachment from Ajaccio on the island of Corsica. On the day of the invasion, 15 August, VF-74 flew 60 sorties, VOF-1, 40 sorties, all ground support missions.

On the morning of 19 August, a four-plane division of VOF-1 pilots spotted the first German aircraft, three He-111’s. The Americans were too short on fuel and could not attack. Two of the Americans were forced to land on HMS Emperor due to their fuel state. Later that day, two He-111's were spotted by another VOF-1 division and were promptly shot down, this occurring near the village of Vienne. Lieut. Poucel and Ens. Wood teamed up to bring down one and Ens. Robinson brought down the second. Soon thereafter, in the same vicinity, Ens. Wood shot down a third He-111 that had made the mistake of appearing on the scene. That same morning, a four-plane division of VF-74 pilots led by Lieut. Comdr. Bass brought down an Ju-88, sharing the kill, and in the afternoon another division attacked a Do-217 with split credits to going to Lieut. (j.g.) Castanedo and Ens. Hilliard.

On 21 August, pilots from VOF-1 shot down three Ju-52 transports north of Marseille. Two were credited to Lieut. (j.g.) Olszewski; one went to Ens. Yenter. Operating for two weeks in support of the invasion, these two squadrons were credited with destroying 825 trucks and vehicles, damaging 334 more and destroying or otherwise immobilizing 84 locomotives. German aircraft shot down were: VOF-1: 6, VF-74: 2.

Although the two navy squadrons lost some 17 aircraft, combined, all were to ground fire or operational accidents. There were none shot down by German aircraft. Among the 7 pilots lost (2 from VOF-1 and 5 from VF-74) was the CO of VF-74, Lieut. Comdr. H. Brinkley Bass, USNA 1938, twice awarded the Navy Cross in early actions including Operation Torch, killed by antiaircraft fire while strafing near Chamelet on 20 August.

There were no US, USN or otherwise, F4Us in action in the European Theater.

The Fleet Air Arm employed the F6F and also the F4U. The only fighter-to-fighter FAA F6F action took place in May 1944. On 8 May, F6F's from the Fleet Air Arm's No. 800 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. SJ Hall, DSC, RN), off HMS Emperor, while escorting a flight of Barracudas was attacked by a mixed group of Me-109's and FW-190's. Two F6F's were lost, one, probably, to anti-aircraft fire (one source indicates that both F6Fs were lost in a mid-air collision, not to any German fire of any kind); the Germans reportedly lost 2 Me-109's and one FW-190. The FW-190 was claimed by Sub-Lieut. Ritchie.

On 14 May, 800 Squadron's leading scorer, Sub-Lieut. Ritchie (now with 4.5 victories) added an He-115 to his tally and the shared another He-115 with the CO of 804 Squadron, Lieut. Comdr. Orr, giving him a total of 6 victories for the war.

Prior to these actions, FAA F6F's were used for anti-aircraft suppression on raids against Tirpitz on 3 April 44 (Operation Tungsten). These included - from Emperor - 800 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. Hall) and 804 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. SG Orr, DSC, RNVR).

FAA F4U's also participated in Operation Tungsten with 1834 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. PN Charlton, DFC, RN) and 1836 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. CC Tomkinson, RNVR) off Victorious, flying high cover for the raid. This was a role the FAA Corsairs of 1841 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. RL Bigg-Wither, DCS & bar, RN) would repeat, flying off Formidable in Operation Mascot on 17 July and with 1841 joined by 1842 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. AMcD Garland, RN) in Operation Goodwood in late August. No contact was made with any German aircraft. Indeed, the FAA F4U's never did tangle with any German aircraft, though not for lack of trying. After the summer of 1944, FAA F4U's were largely operating in the Indian and Pacific Oceans . . . pretty far away from the Germans.

And, of course, the F4F had a good workout in Europe and Africa with both the USN and the FAA, as did the FM-2 with the FAA.

Regards.

Rich

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[BuzzLightyear]

quote:Originally posted by B-24WillowRun

I am looking for USAAC use of F6Fs, but that is slow. I do have referances for the USN's use in support of Operation Anvil-Tourch (Southern France invasion) and also in Norway with the RN when they were flying against the Tirpitz. In France the Hellcats ranged some 100 miles inland, but the German fighters acording to what I have read ran away.

The USAAC took a slow time to look at Navy birds for its use. By 1944 they had a lot of P-38s that can do anything you need, P-47s and P-51s that could take the fight to the enemy. I will keep looking, and be watching this topic with interest. [:p]


USAAC use of the F6F? There was no operational use of the F6F by the US Army Air Corp. The USAAF may have tested it (branches traded planes for evaluation frequently), but they didn't use it.

[R Leonard]

quote:There was no operational use of the F6F by the US Army Air Corp. The USAAF may have tested it (branches traded planes for evaluation frequently), but they didn't use it.

Agreed. And a quick look at USN bureau numbers for F6Fs and F4Us does not show any transfers to the AAF, whereas aircraft obtained from the AAF and assigned bureau numbers are clearly identified as acquired from the Army. Even the SBD's that were originally A-24's and later transferred to the Marines are identified as coming from the Army. The USAAF records I've been able to look at do not show any inventory of F4Us or F6F. There may, of course, have been some evaluation, but I'd suggest it was informal. It was not all that unusual for a pilot from one service to be allowed to take one of his counterpart's in the other service airplanes up for a spin. There was even one USAAF pilot assigned to a USN VF squadron and was carrier qualified, though that was in F4F's.

Regards,

Rich

http://www.applepics.com/userfiles/p722_noelckdr547.jpg

[B-24WillowRun]

Thanks all [8D]This is a great discussion even if it is short because of the one major operation the F6Fs were a part of. The invasion of Southern France is also one of Europes forgotten operations. With all the attention going to the Normandy breakout and the continued Italian campain.

F6Fs were a great Cat [:p]

[ChrisC]

quote:Originally posted by B-24WillowRun

Thanks all [8D]This is a great discussion even if it is short because of the one major operation the F6Fs were a part of. The invasion of Southern France is also one of Europes forgotten operations. With all the attention going to the Normandy breakout and the continued Italian campain.

F6Fs were a great Cat [:p]

[ChrisC]

My apologies for revisting an old thread and I hope this is not deemed inappropriate. My brother-in-law's father recently passed away and at the weekend I was privleged to read his flight logbooks - he flew Hellcats with 800 Squadron FAA off HMS Emperor from 1943 through to the squadron being disbanded in December 1945. During that time he seems to have flown in all the operations attributed to the squadron including Tungsten and Hoops, the operation during which they were attacked by FW190s and ME109s. His logbook would seem to confirm that two ME109s and one FW190 were shot down (not by him) though there is no mention of a mid-air collision - one Hellcat was shot down.

Hope this is of interest.

[Ricky]

Never apolgise for bringingup an old thread if you are adding something of value.

Thanks for sharing the experiences of your brother-in-law's father (your father-in-law?) with us.:)

[Double T]

'Always been a fan of the "Iron-Works" and all the Grumman "Cats."
(Corsairs too.)
Thanks for sharing the story Chris.

Tim