Hawaii under the rising sun????

[ickysdad]

I've been debating on the battlecruiser forum & warships1.com about japan invading oahu after 12/7/41 or in '42. What i want to know is could Zero fighters and IJAAF bombers be ferried from Formosa all the way to the Hawaiian islands, using bases in the mandates as ferry points, without undue wear and maintenance after getting to the hawaiian islands? I'm thinking you'll need to do alot of maintenance after arriving there. How much shipping would be needed to keep one squdron/wing of Zero's or betty's or nell's supported?
Thanks,
Brian

[B-24WillowRun]

Interesting thoughts. But I am not shure how long they would be able to stay? But why not bring them in with the invasion force on carriers, then let the carriers sail off?

For maintance they might have to be fully torn down and cleaned, but I am not certine, some better help in referances should be made. I will look for better material. But I think ocupation would have been very dificult. [B)]

[PMN1]

quote:Originally posted by ickysdad

I've been debating on the battlecruiser forum & warships1.com about japan invading oahu after 12/7/41 or in '42.

Now you're probably going to be under fire from three directions - how about the warships projects page and the WW2 tanks forum and then you can be well and truly surrounded :D


http://warshipprojects.board.dk3.com/2/index.php?sid=8221d2028f3a8fe7994990188111753e

http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/index.php

For those not currently involved

http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm1.showMessage?topicID =5843.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsbattlecruisersfrm1.showMessage?topicI D=750.topic

[ickysdad]

No PMN1 I'm not the one under fire the 2 people who really know anything about the logistics and such of that scenario ,Electric Joe & Mark Bailey both say about the same thing Japan couldn't do it without several years preparation and wholesale revamping of thier armed forces both of which would tip off the US. Mainly I just wanted to ask somebody in a forum about aircraft thier thoughts on this part of the said scenario.

[PMN1]

quote:Originally posted by ickysdad

No PMN1 I'm not the one under fire the 2 people who really know anything about the logistics and such of that scenario ,Electric Joe & Mark Bailey both say about the same thing Japan couldn't do it without several years preparation and wholesale revamping of thier armed forces both of which would tip off the US. Mainly I just wanted to ask somebody in a forum about aircraft thier thoughts on this part of the said scenario.


Ahh - i must have lost the plot somewhere along the threads [:I]

[B-24WillowRun]

Ickysdad,

I would agree as I said before it would be hard to pull off, but still what would you do to hold the islands? As the US Navy got its act together think of having 12 or 20 carriers that could if need be sit and send wave of aircraft over the islands.

But your question is one to ponder. So what elts to ponder?

[Romantic Technofreak]

Of course it would have been necessary to conquer and keep Hawaii for anyone who wants to win in the Pacific. Once the Japanese have the islands, sooner or later they have to expect an American counterattack. With the distance of the decades, we know that Zeroes and Bettys were not appropriate to win a war, at least not alone. For a victory of the Axis close cooperation, especially technical, would have been required. Two examples:

1. The Messerschmitt Me 261:

http://www.airmodel.de/gallery/anack/m261b.jpg

As extreme-long-range reconnoisater and torpedo bomber with superior speed, it would have been a chance to keep American carrier fleets on distance, or at least hamper them, until airplanes of shorter range take over the duty.

2. The Focke-Achgelis Fa 223

http://www.germanvtol.com/fockeachgiles/fa223folder/fa223color.jpg

One of the hardest scourges against the Japanese was the American submarine war. The Japanese stood nearly helpless against it. Using helicopters would have been a good countermeasure. The helicopters could have started from islands or ships. But prerequisited for this would have been the development of appropriate anti-submarine gear, in what the Axis, as a whole, failed.

We were already discussing some airplanes appropriate to supply over big distances with fuel (and spare parts, e.g. H8K and Ki-77).

[ickysdad]

Actually guys I was wanting to know abut what it would take to keep a squdron of single engined fighters, twin engined bombers, and 4 engined recon planes supplied from Japan about 4,000 miles away ,Truk is around 3,000 miles away ,and the Marshalls are 2100 miles away from Oahu. The planes are the Zero, Betty's,Nell's ,and Mavis's/Emily's.

[B-24WillowRun]

Ok thanks for the redirection or well better said on point. If you want all that figure the Marshels would be the best bet. It would have been early in the war and the US posts at Wake and Midway would have fallen or will soon fall. Say three men to a support crew and maybe two planes per ground crew. That is probable low. Also you have to think of the population in the islands what do do about them? Food, water it all is brought in by boat and that would be a real problum. The H8K could bring some in and the Japanese did have bigger flying boats, but for a lot of the supplies it would have to be ship.

Assuming that proper sub protection would be vital. As RT has said that was a problum, but in early 1942 they might have the window needed if all USN operation and repairs have to start in California. Say they could hold the islands as long as they had cood shipping. It would take three or four medium transports a week to keep everything working. That might be pushing it.[B)]