[website] Database Re-organization

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

Hi all.

Just to inform you that I'm currently planning a database redesign. So, before starting this hard work, i want to be sure to include the most complete information. The current DB lacks some important infos about the planes (for example, it would be useful to see the timeline of every plane 's history, or to remark what planes are "derivated" from others, or even have a more flexible classification regarding to roles and so on).

It would be very useful for me if you, the "audience" :), tell me what kind of info would you like to see in planes 's files, and if you wanted also to have a more flexible classification of the planes.

(for example, now the database of the planes reflects a strong emphasis on Country and Manufacturer sorting ... do you think that it would be better in a different manner?)

I anticipate that this work will be far from easy ... and it will take a lot of time (Unfortunately, this site is only a little part of the many things I have to do), but such a feedback will be a great help for my re-design work.

Thank you!

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

No one has advices and/or desires?? :D

[preb]

I would like to see the blueprints of the planes if that is possible?

Seeya

[simon]

That in all fairness would be very difficult, so much was lost in the chaos following the collapse of the Third Reich and Japan, and so much more has been lost of the intervening years (Even on the Allied side!) that a great deal of information is just not available anymore.

Cut-away drawings showing a sort of 3/4 view of the planes interior however are more common, one library I used to visit had a book entirely of cut-aways for most of the planes of WWII, however a friend of mine and I looked into to buying a copy ourselves, though it was too expensive for me at the time (Not so much now, so if anyone knows more details of this book, or a similar one, please feel free to let me know!).

I would like more detail on the aircraft concerned, specifically on the variations, for example, there were a great number of Spitfire variants with greatly differing performance. Other information, which I find particularly difficult to come by, but I would find useful is how much ammunition the various planes carried for their guns.

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

More info on variants for most successfull planes would be definitely a nice idea ... on the old website there was more detailed infos about a few planes (Me109, Spitfire), but with the present version I had to cut them out to "standardize" the planes'files. But now I think I've got an idea to add this info in a reliable way ...

Ammo info idea it's not bad at all! ;)

[marelepierre]

I think it will be interesting to add to various plains info about the big pilots (aces) hwo used them and if you can find it, comments from those pilots becouse the performances written on technical specifications are not allways the same with the impressions from pilots.

[SebastianC]

I think that in this database could be possible color camo schemes of these planes to view. And list of used colors. It could be so useful for modellers - begginers and also professionals. thx Sebastian

[Vimeous]

First off great site! I've been hunting like crazy for specific information on a number of WWII aircraft and stumbled across your database. You don't have all the info I'm after so here's my suggestion.

I'm in the process of researching a mod for the PC game Battlefield 1942. While my colleagues have dug up much info on ground forces (one is a tank historian and ex-commander), I have been tasked with the job of deciding what aircraft we need to make our mod that little bit more real.
What I really need to know is what planes took part in which battles. Even just knowing which battle a plane first appeared in would be usefull.

Example:
Operation Compass and the early battles at Tobruk in Jan & April '41. What aircover was available?
I've read that "Italian Airforce Operations Ceased" by early '41. Does this mean I should be considering G50bis and MC-200's for Operation Compass and maybe Tobruk in Jan followed by Me-190E and BF-110's (after a number of BF-110 squadrons were moved to the desert following the Battle of Britain) for Tobruk in April?
Also were there Spitfire V's in the desert that early or should I be looking at the Hurricane 1a to go with the Blenheim I and Wellingtons?
In the early desert war I've read suggestions I might need to consider using the Lysander, P-37 and Martin Marylands. I'd hazard a guess at the Ju-87 but have no idea what other Axis aircraft to think about.

In total I've got more than 26 battles to cover and while including ALL the aircraft involved would be great, I've got to consider game-balance as well as what we can actually model!

So, for mad people like me, can you add a little battle history as well as the vital info you already cover?

Thanks

Vimeous

P.s. I do realise the shear magnitude of such a task, it's been driving me mad! I'm struggling to find any source of the info needed.

[simon]

well, good luck with your task, you're going to need it!

For specific information on Italian Operations, try the Commando Supremo link in the Links section. For the rest, I would say stick to the main types, ignore recon, army co-operation and patrol type, ie the Lysander, Short Sunderland, etc unless you specifically need them for an operation. The reason is that these frequently operated alone, and wouldn't contribute a great deal to a game. Spitfire MkVs weren't in the desert that early, although some may have operated from Malta, if you e-mail me directly (Simonr1978@aol.com), I'll help you with specific information if I can, but I do have some good books on the specific campaigns, so may be able to provide some of the information.

Don't know who told you that Italian Airforce operations ceased in 1941, that runs contrary to most of what I know though.

You definately drew the short straw here, why didn't you do the sane think and pick tanks?!?

[simon]

Not really a database thing, but I personally would appreciate the ability to edit my own posts (no-one elses) after they've gone on the message board, it's annoying how often I realise I've made a spelling mistake only after I've posted a reply!

Database-wise, details about the various aircraft weapons would be interesting. For example, I've read references to the fact that the Italian Breda-SAFAT gun was poor in air to air combat, but haven't been able to find out why, another would be the US 37mm Cannon. I'm guessing it would have quite a slow rate of fire, but I can't find out exactly what it is.

Cheers,

Simon.:)

[Tobz]

Simon - I expect a big slobbery kiss for this: Your prayers have been answered! All the avaition gun questions answer, including ones you hadn't even thought of - http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-in.html

As for me, I'd love to see real annecdotes from the pilots in the database, as they're so revealing: ie. Galland's on how a well flown ME109 could actually out-turn a Spit at low speed because of the leading edge slats... or how some pilots prefered their old Beaufighters over the later Mossies for shipping strike, as the Mossies tended to come apart when ditched... I spoke to a pilot who flew in Korea (Fireflies) and said that he was fed up with hearing the old misconstruance about the vulnerability of water cooled against air cooled engines to small arms fire (I'll tell more later!)...

All these sort of things are what brings the fabric, alumininium and av gas to life in my view! The stats are interesting, but the 'human factor' adds so much (you know what they say about lies, damn lies and statistics - as well as lazy historians adding to the mix). Furthermore, the guys who were there are sadly passing along with their memories into history. Lets try and preserve their experience.

[simon]

Thanks Tobz, everything I wanted to know, and more!

Big wet slobbery one on its way...

[Vimeous]

quote:Originally posted by simon
Don't know who told you that Italian Airforce operations ceased in 1941, that runs contrary to most of what I know though.


I've been back and re-read my source material, I misinterpreted it. It actually says Italian airforce operations AGAINST THE UK ceased in early January 1941. I was so busy reading all the Africa related stuff I thought it was a universal statement about operations against all UK forces.
Of course this begs the question of when the Luftwaffe got into the African desert and how they and the Italians operated together!

You're right tanks may have been the better choice.........
I'll email you as I get a clearer picture of what my colleagues and I want to achieve.
Thanks.

P.s. Sorry for digressing from the purpose of the thread!

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

quote:Originally posted by simon

Not really a database thing, but I personally would appreciate the ability to edit my own posts (no-one elses) after they've gone on the message board, it's annoying how often I realise I've made a spelling mistake only after I've posted a reply!

I think this feature should already work ... On every post you make, if you click on the http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/icon_edit_topic.gif icon on top of the post, you should be able to edit your posts.

:)

[simon]

A-ha! So that's how I do it...

Thanks!

[lucycat11758]

First off, I'd like to Thank You for having a kick ass website. Being a girl it is so hard to find other people to talk to about military aviation whether it's because it doesn't interest them or mainly because they don't take me seriously. So Thank You! As for what new things I'd like to see on this site, I'd like to hear some personal stories from actual pilots. Maybe you could make a sort of encyclopedia with pictures of the aircraft, a few words about them and maybe a story or two about the aircraft in combat. Good luck. I'm sure anything that you decide to do will be great! Thanks Again!

[Corsarius]

quote:Originally posted by Admin

No one has advices and/or desires?? :D


Business or pleasure? [:I] (Just kidding. I'm a guy!)

The KISS principle is pretty good.. Keep It Simple Stoopid. Have a BIG picture of the aeroplane at the top, and a three-view (if at all possible. You'd be surprised how few sites have this). Give a description of the aircraft, it's development, and it's service history, as well as how easy mechanics found it to service, and pilots to fly. Add a small section giving countries/forces that used this machine (and not just 'axis' or 'allies'). Then below all that, give the vital statistics of the machine: height, width, depth, armament, range, fuel capacity, rate of climb, etc etc etc.

Possibly the 'notable aces' could link with the existing aces section, and the 'countries' section link with the country of origin section giving aircraft from that particular country, or a country section giving all aircraft USED by that country (Countries such as Australia and NZ used a variety of aircraft from a bewildering variety of countries)

just my two cents..

Oh, and make it grey or green or camouflage or something. Yellow is so off-putting!

[GregP]

Hey Vimeous, send me an email. http://greg.pascal@mindspring.com

[GregP]

Hey Taglia,

As soon as I can figure out a way to get past my attachment-size limit, I'll send you my files.

At last look, my spreadsheet with airframe info was 10 Mb and increasing! My email app won't let me send a file that size ...

- Greg

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

Do you have any Istant Messaging software on your PC? we can use it to swap files :)

[GregP]

If you need it, I have a lot of information about the various aircraft ... more than most people. I have data such as span, length, height, wing area, power, weights, speed, ceiling, range, most rate of climb info, armament, and many photos.

Need data on a particular type, email me.

http://greg.pascal@mindspring.com

I have early WWII through modern jets and X-planes, rocket planes, and turboprops ... for the most part.

Total number of planes I have data on right now is 574.

[wtr27513]

How about some of the plane's with the nose art names?
Barbie[:I]

[simon]

Or just a nose-art section in general? The only problem maybe that a lot of the pictures tend to have been produced in other books and so are protected by copyright, however I'm sure that's not unsurmountable.

Something else that maybe useful to us modellers and wargamers out here might be a camoflage section of coloured 3 or even 4 views, showing schemes and importantly where and when they applied.

And finally, a guide to how aircraft markings were derived. Example, RAF squadrons during WWII tended to use a three letter code, two letters identifying the squadron, and the third the individual aircraft, so Hurricane US-G was aircraft "G" in whatever squadron "US" indicated (The exception was Wing Commanders and above whose aircraft could be painted with their initials, ie "DB" was Douglas Bader's plane), other nations however I'm more than a little vague on.

[wtr27513]

[8D]
Sounds good to me Simon!
Barbie

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

Thanks to all for the suggestions ... I'm quite busy now but I see what I can do :D

[simon]

I know nothing about computer programming or webiste construction but if I can be of any help with facts and figures, please let me know!

[wtr27513]

I say put Simon to work Taglia!
Barbie[}:)]

[simon]

Easy Tiger! ;) Go gentle with me!

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

The new version of Tgplanes I'm planning will allow other people to add/edit planes files (not all the people ... but those who want) and even to place comments directly over the planes files.

But I'm off studying and doing other projects until February :(

[wtr27513]

Will it be easier to add the plane pictures or as complicated as now? I still can't figure out how to do all the steps needed to do it, with having to get my own website etc. to do so.....so if and when you are done studying you can add,if you would be kind enough to do so, the picture or pictures that I sent to you. .....and I don't care if it's not till next year......'cause I couldn't study long enough to figure out how to do it myself!
Thanks,
Barbie:(

[Lightning]

You have the very best website there is for this kind of forum! I can't tear myself away sometimes.

I'm particularly interested in one-on-one comparisons of the various types of WW11 aircraft. For instance, P-38 vs P-47, Mustang vs Corsair, etc. These comparisons could include performance specs, kill ratios, pilot evaluations by pilots that flew both types in question, etc.

I also agree with the earlier suggestion that the writter of a posting should be able to go back and edit it after it has been posted. This would serve to salvage some otherwise very fine efforts from inadvertent mistakes and/or ommissions.

In any event, I'm very satisfied with your website just the way it is, should you decide not to change it.

[Paolo Tagliaferri]

I really wanna improve it but I have very little time :D

[Ricky]

The only improvement I can think of is adding more planes, more data.
The basic structure is fantastic!